How to get an older child to sleep?

I know she's been sort of anxious for a long time, linkat. She reminds me a lot of K as she grew up. Anxiety disorders are real. If she has one you'll do all of you a favor by finding out sooner rather than later.

Maybe you could ask her if she has a hard time getting to sleep because her thoughts are churning so much. If yes, then maybe you could start now with some relaxation techniques (deep, slow breathing) or back rubs that will help her calm down at night. Or, ask her what it is she's thinking about. Maybe it's concerns about your safety or hers which you can help alleviate just by sitting with her on the side of the bed and talking to her before she turns out the light at night (or even for a bit longer after she turns out the light).

Here is something someone made. A bottom bed tent on a bunk bed.

I would imagine you could use the regular bed tent for the top bunk.

Simple curtains can help too!

My younger one has trouble turning off her brain at night. What seems to work is to tell her that we'll check on her every hour until we go to sleep. Once we have kept our word two or three times, she seems to let go of the need to call out to us. Now she's usually asleep by the second time we check on her. It's not great, but it's better than it was.

Comments like this make a lot of sense to me.

linkat, I was musing about this earlier this morning.

You've said a few times that your daughter is a very busy girl.

Maybe so busy that it may help to take an "om" break during the day, or, let's say, when she first comes home from school.

Perhaps the winding down rituals in the evening aren't enough to disapate the busyness.

Maybe a little meditation, tai chi, or yoga time? I know it wouldn't be easy at first, but it would be learning a new skill she can use to relax.

On another vein, something I've been thinking about.

I'm sure you and your daughter have great communication and all that, but sometimes, something might be bothering someone, and they just can't seem to share it, or even express it.

Story....when I was about your daughter's age, my brother had a fever. One night, he said he saw a frankenstein monster coming out of the closet. He was able to describe it so well, that it glowed in the dark green, came out from behind the clothes, etc. etc. He was bothered by it for a few nights, but he accepted it was something he just saw with his fever. Or, I guess he did, who knows? I, on the other had, would lay in bed, staring at the closet door, waiting for the green frankenstein to come out and get me. I could never bring myself to tell anyone, but it was really scary.....another time, my older sister hung up a dress over the door of the closet, while I was sleeping, and went to bed. I guess she was going to wear it the next day. I woke up and saw it, and I'm not sure exactly what I thought it was, but it scared the bejesus out of me! For a long time after that, I would search the shadows in the dark, looking, and seeing all sorts of scary things, which I never told anyone about.

Not saying it's exactly that, or as scary, but everyone thinks about stuff.

Freeduck has a point. My brain actually turns on around 10pm and I just start remembering things I need to do or tell the hubby about. I think it stems from being able to finally relax and my body says "ok, well now that we have the work from today done, let's start thinking about tomorrow!"

Maybe she has something similar to this?

Yes she will sometimes read at nighttime. I talked to her last night about how I will read til my eyes start drooping. Then lay down, if I find that I can't sleep after 15 minutes I will read again. I think she may be struggling to find a way to help her fall asleep after speaking with her last night.

cute - I like that

She does seem like she is having difficulty expressing how she feels - she tries, but she doesn't seem to really understand or doesn't know how to say it.

darn it... wrote a big long post - lost it - opined - maybe good it disappeared - i was waffling.

here's a website... tho I DO think it applies to non-gifted kids too

http://giftedkids.about.com/od/familylife/qt/sleep_help.htm

i don't think all children need the same amount of sleep - my eldest's "issues" prevent him from sleeping

my youngest - doesn't have those issues - but only sleeps about 8-9hrs/nite - sometimes a little more, sometimes less - some of his friends still sleep 10-11 hours a nite.

i don't sleep - not properly - can't have ANY noise at all, not even a ticking watch. I wake up between 10-11pm at nite - my brain is still boggling at 3am, (and that is with sleeping potions too).

little fella is 11 - he "needs" noise to sleep, finds it awfully difficult to fall asleep in silence.

we're all so different, and tho I agree we all need sleep, especially kids - some don't require the same amount as others - but I don't think that has to be seen as abnormal or that there is a problem.

Perhaps there is something physical / emotional / ???? Perhaps not tho.

how many hours does she sleep Linkat? aprox per nite?


Eldest child was put on melatonin - even that.... natural product.... made no difference.


Your daughter may find it hard to get into a routine having been sleeping with her sister for so long. Maybe one of those big huge pillows to cuddle up to, and a kitty.... purring.

k - waffling again...



I understand this very well - from my kids and my perspective
A child can no more will himself to fall asleep than an adult can. In fact, the harder we try to fall asleep, the more elusive sleep seems to become.

Wait.

Is this the daughter who runs with her arms funny?

I would say she sleeps about 9 - 10 hours a night. She usually goes to bed between 8:00 and 9:00 and gets up around 7:00. On the weekends she sleeps a little later.

The kitty slept with her again last night. It seemed to help she fell asleep alot sooner than the previous night. Although her younger sister some time during the night went into the older girl's bed-I am sure after prompting from her sister.

I agree you can't will yourself to sleep - that is why I suggest reading or something else quiet in bed until she feels sleepy.

No - but you did give me a good laugh.

The other day she (the funny arm running girl) and me had a race. Appartently I wasn't running quite right or fast enough so she showed me how I needed to swing my arms to run faster.

Little fella is staying over a school for 2 nites a week at the moment - he has to be in bed by 9.15 and lights out there at 9.30 at age 11 - they get up around 6.30/7.00am. Big school made a huge difference because they work so much harder, plus with boarding, the social side of things too - he's having to learn to sleep without "music" "audio" - but certainly at home, I kinda go with allowing him to fall asleep with his noise. It works for him.


Whatever works Linkat - if your daughter isn't cranky etc throughout the day and is growing normally - I would think she's getting enough sleep. You're doing a great job - it's always so hard to know what is best for our kids - it's really good that you can talk with her and reassure her - hopefully, she'll find a routine that works for her. My little fella loves "audio books" - his eyes are too tired at nite to read (wears glasses to read) but he loves listening to stories - Lion Witch and The Wardrobe, Horrid Henry, Tale of Unfortunate Events...

Good luck hun - different perspectives are good - lotsa ideas.

Big sleep to your girlie. x

Thanks - I think she will be fine - I just hate to watch her struggle like that, but sometimes kids need to work things out for themselves.

I had a brainwave the other day, came here to check what you'd said about something and it seemed to tie in:



If she goes to bed between 8:00 and 9:00 and gets up around 7:00, then that's between 10 and 11 hours of sleep a night, not 9-10. Is it that she's awake for an hour or so between bedtime and sleep?

The brainwave was that I put sozlet to bed before she got really tired and then she had a bad night. If I rush things, she has a hard time falling asleep initially and then once that's happened, she has a hard time the rest of the night. She goes to sleep right away (and stays asleep) if she's tired enough, but if she isn't tired enough, then it's ugly.

Your daughter is in a phase when kids need relatively little sleep -- they need more when they're littler and then more again when they're teenagers.



http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/sleep/sleep.html

All kids are different of course -- how much sleep has she needed for her age thus far? (Like, did she give up naps earlier than other kids?) But if she only needs a little over 9 hours of sleep a night, maybe she's just not tired enough when she goes to bed?

One of my colleague's has three young daughters. The middle one was having sleep problems and was getting into bed with anyone else in the house who wouldn't kick her out.

Her parents thought it was related to her bed being too small so ordered a queen size bed (which they were planning to do when she turned 13).

The bed was ready for pick up this past week, so two weekends ago they took some other furniture out of her room to make room for the big bed. The small bed stayed in the room and she slept marvellously til the new bed arrived. Mom and Dad now think that the problem was that her room was too cluttered with furniture and 'stuff'. They're going to de-clutter the youngest daughter's room and see how that goes for her.

So - moral of this story - there are as manypossible causes and solutions to sleep difficulties as there are people. Too dark/too bright/too quiet/too noisy/too much blank space/not enough blank space ... etc etc

linkat, i have no kids, alas, save for myself. so it is only myself i can go by. lord knows i keep myself more busy than is healthy.... and i know that no matter how exhausted i am, i still need a quiet downtime at home, before i can sleep. if i don't make time for it, it cuts out of my sleep. it's just something some (perhaps most) people need. i've always been that way, too... doesn't matter how much i'm active during the day, it's just that simple psychological need of lounging around, preferably with my people. perhaps your daughter's day is too busy after all?

Could be - but she will sleep in late.

Also, she does go to sleep closer to the 8:30 - 9:00 time frame.

The two have been sleeping together again. I don't care as long as they both get some sleep - it seems to work for them.

Could be - she is done with basketball so now all she has as extra outside of school is math enrichment - the math olympics is next week so she will be done with that as well.

Also, as my husband is no longer getting a salary (only commission - due to economy they can no longer pay him a salary), he has been picking them up right after school so no more aftercare - this gives them more doing nothing stuff - playing with dolls and things so she has been getting more down time.

This may have helped, but could also be because her younger sister has agreed to sleep in her bed again.

Honestly I don't care where they sleep as long as they are getting enough sleep.

I kinda like their closeness they have for each other too.