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Muslim TV exec beheads wife; diversity?

 
 
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2009 12:57 pm
I realize a lot of 'progressives' here stay away from the tough topics and tend to pick the low hanging fruit, but I was surprised no one addressed this.

For those of you who are not familar with the incident:

Quote:


Muslim TV exec accused of beheading wife in NY

By CAROLYN THOMPSON " 4 days ago

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. (AP) " The crime drips with brutal irony: a woman decapitated, allegedly by her estranged husband, in the offices of the television network the couple founded with the hope of countering Muslim stereotypes.

Muzzammil "Mo" Hassan is accused of beheading his wife last week, days after she filed for divorce. Authorities have not discussed the role religion or culture might have played, but the slaying gave rise to speculation that it was the sort of "honor killing" more common in countries half a world away, including the couple's native Pakistan.

Funeral services for Aasiya Hassan, 37, were Tuesday. Her 44-year-old husband is scheduled to appear for a felony hearing Wednesday.

The Hassans lived in Orchard Park " a well-off Buffalo suburb that hadn't seen a homicide since 1986 " and started Bridges TV there in 2004 with the message of developing understanding between North America and the Middle East and South Asia. The network, available across the U.S. and Canada, was believed to be the first English-language cable station aimed at the rapidly growing Muslim demographic.

Orchard Park Police Chief Andrew Benz said his officers had responded to domestic incidents involving the couple, most recently Feb. 6, the day Mo Hassan was served with the divorce papers and an order of protection.

"I've never heard him raise his voice," said Paul Moskal, who became friendly with the couple while he was chief counsel for the FBI in Buffalo. Moskal would answer questions in forums aired on Bridges TV that were intended to improve understanding between Muslim-Americans and law enforcement.

"His personal life kind of betrayed what he tried to portray publicly," Moskal said.

On Feb. 12, Hassan went to a police station and told officers his wife was dead at the TV studio.

"We found her laying in the hallway the offices were off of," Benz said. Aasiya Hassan's head was near her body.

"I don't know if (the method of death) does mean anything," said the chief, who would not discuss what weapon may have been used. "We certainly want to investigate anything that has any kind of merit. It's not a normal thing you would see."

Hassan was not represented by an attorney at an initial appearance on a charge of second-degree murder. Neither police nor the Erie County district attorney's office knew if he had hired a lawyer.

The New York president of the National Organization for Women, Marcia Pappas, condemned prosecutors for referring to the death as an apparent case of domestic violence.

"This was, apparently, a terroristic version of 'honor killing,'" a statement from NOW said.

Nadia Shahram, who teaches family law and Islam at the University at Buffalo Law School, explained honor killing as a practice still accepted among fanatical Muslim men who feel betrayed by their wives.

"If a woman breaks the law which the husband or father has placed for the wife or daughter, honor killing has been justified," said Shahram, who was a regular panelist on a law show produced by Bridges TV. "It happens all the time. It's been practiced in countries such as Pakistan and in India."

Acquaintances said Mo Hassan was not overtly religious " co-workers did not see him pray, for instance. But he seemed to adhere to many traditional practices.

Nancy Sanders, the television station's news director for 2 1/2 years, remembers him asking her to move her feet during her job interview so he would not see her legs. She was wearing a skirt and stockings.

He also would not let women enter his office unless his wife was there, and he blocked the station from airing a story about the first Muslim woman to win the title of Miss England in 2005, Sanders said.

Acquaintances said Aasiya Hassan was trained as an architect. Sanders described her as obedient to her husband, and that she wore a traditional hijab for a time but later stopped without explanation.

"She was beautiful, small, delicately built," she said, "while Mo would fill up a door frame. I always thought of him as a gentle giant."

Sanders, who left Bridges TV a year ago, said co-workers traded stories about Hassan's apparent violent streak, including one which had him running his wife's car off the road while the couple's two young children were inside. Aasiya herself never spoke of it, she said.

"I just do not feel it was an honor killing," Sanders added. "I think it was domestic abuse that got out of control."

Erie County District Attorney Frank Sedita did not immediately respond to The Associated Press' request for a copy of the order of protection issued against Mo Hassan. Divorce records are sealed in New York state. Aasiya Hassan's lawyer would not reveal the reasons for the divorce filing.

Hassan graduated with an MBA from the Simon School of Business at the University of Rochester in 1996, according to the TV station's Web site. Bridges broadcasts all over the United States and in Canada on various cable providers and Verizon FiOS. As of 6 p.m. Tuesday, the network was not broadcasting in the Buffalo area.

There was no answer at the network on Tuesday and it's Web site has a message saying Bridges is shocked and saddened and requests privacy.

Link:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iYkqUumzaf7AjUkw1ErtZOqihGrgD96DN1L01


And a followup article...

Quote:


Gruesome beheading poses another test for U.S. Muslims

By ERIC GORSKI, AP Religion Writer

The crime was so brutal, shocking and rife with the worst possible stereotypes about their faith that some U.S. Muslims thought the initial reports were a hoax.

The harsh reality of what happened in an affluent suburb of Buffalo, N.Y. - the beheading of 37-year-old Aasiya Hassan and arrest of her estranged husband in the killing - is another crucible for American Muslims.

Here was a couple that appeared to be the picture of assimilation and tolerance, co-founders of a television network that aspired to improve the image of Muslims in a post 9-11 world.

Now, as Muzzammil "Mo" Hassan faces second-degree murder charges, those American Muslims who have spoken out are once again explaining that their faith abhors such horrible acts, and they are using the tragedy as a rallying cry against domestic violence.

The killing and its aftermath raise hard questions for Muslims - about gender issues, about distinctions between cultural and religious practices, and about differing interpretations of Islamic texts regarding the treatment of women.

"Muslims don't want to talk about this for good reason," said Saleemah Abdul-Ghafur, a Muslim author and activist. "There is so much negativity about Muslims, and it sort of perpetuates it. The right wing is going to run with it and misuse it. But we've got to shine a light on this issue so we can transform it."

There is evidence of movement in that direction in the 10 days since the Hassan slaying. In an open letter to American Muslim leaders, Imam Mohamed Hagmagid Ali of Sterling, Va., vice president of the Islamic Society of North America, said "violence against women is real and cannot be ignored."

He urged that imams and community leaders never second-guess a woman in danger, and said women seeking divorces because of physical abuse should not be viewed as bringing shame to their families.

Muslim women's advocates consider the statement significant after years of indifference in a community which has seen only recent progress - for example, the opening of shelters for battered Muslim women in a few major cities.

"This is a horrible tragedy, but it gives us a window," said Abdul-Ghafur, editor of the anthology "Living Islam Out Loud: American Muslim Women Speak." "The next time a woman comes to her imam and says, 'He hit me,' the reply might not be, 'Be patient, sister, is there something you did, sister? Is there something you can do?' The chances are greater the imam will say, 'This is unacceptable."'

At least nine mosques, imams and Islamic organizations also agreed to denounce domestic violence this week at the behest of a coalition of Muslims that organized on Facebook after Aasiya Hassan's death.

"What you have is a cultural problem our communities have been silent about too long," said Wajahat Ali, a journalist and playwright who helped drive the effort. "What people with an agenda are trying to do is say this is an example of a barbaric religion. This is an example of barbaric misogyny and domestic violence."

At the South Bay Islamic Association in San Jose, Calif., Imam Tahir Anwar said he preached at Friday prayer services about keeping peace in the family and denounced physical and emotional domestic violence.

"I wouldn't say (the problem) is particular to the Muslim community, but to the immigrant community whether you're Muslim or otherwise," Anwar, whose parents are from India, said in an interview. "Women don't speak up about it. It's a taboo that all immigrant communities sort of face."

Of Islam's potential role in the Hassan slaying, Anwar said: "All religions have texts that can be misinterpreted. Good people regardless of faith would never do something like this."

While sermons like Anwar's are encouraging, other Muslim clerics in the U.S. likely preached that Aasiya Hassan could have avoided her fate by being more obedient, said Muqtedar Khan, an associate professor of political science and international relations at the University of Delaware.

"The imam has to be enlightened enough to recognize this violence happens, to not hide in denial or somehow blame it on American culture," said Khan, author of "American Muslims: Bridging Faith and Freedom."

"In order to essentially condemn violence against women, they will have to treat women with greater respect. Unfortunately, the level of enlightenment among imams in North America varies significantly."

Asra Nomani, a Muslim journalist, author and activist from Morgantown, W.Va., challenged Muslims who say the murder has no link to Islamic teachings. While Islam does not sanction domestic violence or murder, a literal reading of a controversial verse in the Quran taught in some mosques can lead to honor killings and murder, she said.

"It's sort of like the typical reaction to terrorism in the community, where people want to say, 'This had nothing to do with Islam,"' Nomani said. "Well, it doesn't have anything to do with your interpretation of Islam that teaches you can't kill innocent people. But terrorism, violence, honor killing - they are all part of ideological problems we have in the community we need to eradicate."

The passage - Chapter 4, Verse 34 - has been widely translated to sanction physical discipline against disobedient wives. There is disagreement about to what degree and whether it's punitive or symbolic.

The verse is cited "all the time" to justify domestic violence, just as people of other faiths cite scriptures to support oppression of women, said Salma Abugideri of the Peaceful Families Project, which offers training and workshops to combat domestic violence in Muslim communities.

"People will use whatever they can to justify their behavior," she said. "It just seems that people outside the Muslim faith just tend to buy that rationalization as true."

There also has been speculation - by the head of the New York chapter of the National Organization for Woman, among others - that the Hassan case involved honor killing, in which a person is slain by a relative who believes the victim has brought shame to the family.

Aasiya Hassan was killed six days after her husband was served with divorce papers and a protective order. Mo Hassan is a native of Pakistan; acquaintances said he was not overtly religious, and his lawyer has said neither religion nor culture played a role in what happened.

Marsha Freeman, director of the International Women's Rights Action Watch at the University of Minnesota, said honor killing is a cultural and not religious phenomenon. She said it's practiced in some Muslim countries but not others and is present in nations with people of other religions.

"I wouldn't go running around talking about honor killings without knowing more," Freeman said.

On Web sites and e-mail lists, many Muslims are rejecting the term.

"Calling it an honor killing, it sort of takes it out of the mainstream conversation and makes it a conversation about those people from over there from those backwards countries," said Abugideri, of the Peaceful Families Project. "In fact, in this country and in mainstream society there are many cases where domestic violence escalates to the point where a woman is killed."

Link:

http://www.komonews.com/news/national/40028237.html


My question for the A2K 'progressives’ here:

It seems as if diversity has been one of those themes, or ideas, that have been drilled into the heads of everyone - from grade school students to those taking mandatory workplace training - as a "good thing."

Don't question it; if you do, you're at best ignorant, at worst, racist.

Well, in the spirit and wishes of AG Eric Holder, let's talk about it.

Anyone else bugged by the way Muslim men treat women in their culture?

Coming to America, they bring their mores and customs with them; 'progressives' tell me to not only accept them, but to learn from and value this society.

My question is why?

If/when US fundamentalist Christians act out, 'progressives' are quick to mock, criticize, and even fight in court. Sometimes, I tend to agree with ‘progressives’ in these cases, although I don’t share their meanness. It’s just the Constitution is pretty clear.

Except when it comes to liberal white guilt. Or whatever psychological disorder it is that makes ‘progressives’ pander so relentlessly.

In universities, we build wash stations for our Muslim students so they can clean themselves before they pray. Just one example of this sickness.

My favorite words for 'progressives' used to be unintended consequences.

Now, it's Pandering 'Progressives'...
 
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2009 01:04 pm
there is actually a thread about this already

the only interesting thing about this story is the fact that he beheaded her

at christmas a man dressed as santa killed his former wife and using an improvised flame thrower set fire to the home she was in with other friends and relatives killing and injuring more people, he then killed himself as well as rigging his car with explosives, luckily they did not go off and no further lives were lost

this man was not a muslim, there are violent men all over, he felt she had betrayed and belittled him, something that accounts for many non muslim men beating and killing their partners,
Green Witch
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2009 01:12 pm
This liberal thinks people should not chop off the heads of other people. I think there are conservatives who will agree on me with this issue. I don't believe in any religion, but I do in morality. Religion is often an excuse for bad behavior. I see no difference in fundamentalists no matter who they invent to worship.
0 Replies
 
A Lone Voice
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2009 09:22 pm
@djjd62,
;ll
Quote:


the only interesting thing about this story is the fact that he beheaded her


Really?

Women's rights - or actually the lack of such in this culture - isn't the issue here?

He just didn't shank her; beheading a victim is meant to spread terror. It is part of an honor killing system that is, in my opinion, sick.

Not your opinion, though? Why not? Why are you afraid to judge? Really, it's ok...

Quote:


at christmas a man dressed as santa killed his former wife and using an improvised flame thrower set fire to the home she was in with other friends and relatives killing and injuring more people, he then killed himself as well as rigging his car with explosives, luckily they did not go off and no further lives were lost

this man was not a muslim, there are violent men all over, he felt she had betrayed and belittled him, something that accounts for many non muslim men beating and killing their partners,


Read again what Salma Abugideri of the Peaceful Families Project had to say. Please.

Yes, there are violent men all over the world. And in America. Where we frown on them, lock them up, do what we can to remove them from society.

Yet the Muslim culture is more like the US was back over a half century ago, with their views of domestic violence towards women. Yet you seem to mitigate this by using the excuse 'everyone's violent'.

Why are you so hesitant to judge another culture? Really, it's ok to point out that some aspects of other cultures are simply unacceptable to our society.

Or should be, at least.

Shoot, many Muslims living here are trying to do just that, but pandering 'progressives' are getting in their way...


engineer
 
  4  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 09:13 am
@A Lone Voice,
I'm not sure I understand your position. Everyone agrees this is a crime and that the perpetrator should be arrested and stand trial. There are no "progressives" saying his crime should be excused. No "progressives" are saying honor killings are ok or acceptable inside some cultural bubble. You are creating a mythical group of people who would defend such crimes and then attacking them. Then you wonder why none of them come to debate with you.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 09:20 am
@A Lone Voice,
believe me i'm probably the most judgmental person you'll ever meet

he's gonna be punished for what he did

and i'd be willing to bet that there are plenty of christian advocates who, while maybe not advocating honour killings would be more than happy to see a woman in her place again
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 09:23 am
http://glennhager.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/straw-man.jpg

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
A Lone Voice
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 04:01 pm
@engineer,
Quote:

I'm not sure I understand your position. Everyone agrees this is a crime and that the perpetrator should be arrested and stand trial. There are no "progressives" saying his crime should be excused. No "progressives" are saying honor killings are ok or acceptable inside some cultural bubble. You are creating a mythical group of people who would defend such crimes and then attacking them. Then you wonder why none of them come to debate with you.


OK.

Hey, engineer, are you as concerned as I am about the negative aspects of Muslim culture and its influence in the US? There doesn't seem to be much assimilation as with other cultures in the past, and parts of Islam, i.e. the way they treat women, really bug me.

Isn't the crime of beheading, after all, just a symptom of a dysfunctional culture?

Does it bother you? Do you believe Muslim culture here is negatively impacting our judicial system and schools as it is in Europe? Are you concerned that as Islam grows in the US, there may continue to be a demand for non-Muslims to respect Sharia Law?

Interesting article here, about Islamic customs in Europe:

Quote:

From Islamabad to Bradford
Degrees of accommodation.

By Mark Steyn

‘It is hard to understand this deal,” said Richard Holbrooke, President Obama’s special envoy. And, if the special envoy of the so-called smartest and most impressive administration in living memory can’t understand it, what chance do the rest of us have?

Nevertheless, let’s try. In the Swat Valley, where a young Winston Churchill once served with the Malakand Field Force battling Muslim insurgents, his successors have concluded the game isn’t worth the candle. In return for a temporary ceasefire, the Pakistani government agreed to let the local franchise of the Taliban impose its industrial strength version of sharia across the whole of Malakand Region. If “region” sounds a bit of an imprecise term, Malakand has over five million people, all of whom are now living under a murderous theocracy. Still, peace rallies have broken out all over the Swat Valley, and, at a Swat peace rally, it helps to stand well back: As one headline put it, “Journalist Killed While Covering Peace Rally.”

But don’t worry about Pakistani nukes falling into the hands of “extremists”: The Swat Valley is a good hundred miles from the “nation”’s capital, Islamabad " or about as far as Northern Vermont is from Southern Vermont. And, of course, Islamabad is safely under the control of the famously moderate Ali Zardari. A few days before the Swat deal, Mr. Zardari marked the dawn of the Obama era by releasing from house arrest A. Q. Khan, the celebrated scientist and one-stop shop for all your Islamic nuclear needs, for whose generosity North Korea and Iran are especially grateful.

From Islamabad, let us zip a world away to London. Actually, it’s nearer than you think. The flight routes between Pakistan and the United Kingdom are some of the busiest in the world. Can you get a direct flight from your local airport to, say, Bradford?

Where?

Bradford, Yorkshire. There are four flights a week from Islamabad to Bradford, a town where 75 percent of Pakistani Britons are married to their first cousins. But don’t worry, in the country as a whole, only 57 percent of Pakistani Britons are married to first cousins.

Among that growing population of Yorkshire Pakistanis is a fellow called Lord Ahmed, a Muslim member of Parliament. He was in the news the other day for threatening (as the columnist Melanie Phillips put it) “to bring a force of 10,000 Muslims to lay siege to the House of Lords” if it went ahead with an event at which the Dutch parliamentarian Geert Wilders would have introduced a screening of his controversial film Fitna. Britain’s Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith, reacted to this by declaring Minheer Wilders persona non grata and having him arrested at Heathrow and returned to the Netherlands.

The Home Secretary is best known for an inspired change of terminology: Last year she announced that henceforth Muslim terrorism (an unhelpful phrase) would be reclassified as “anti-Islamic activity.” Seriously. The logic being that Muslims blowing stuff up tends not to do much for Islam’s reputation " i.e., it’s an “anti-Islamic activity” in the same sense that Pearl Harbor was an anti-Japanese activity.

Anyway, Geert Wilders’s short film is basically a compilation video of footage from various recent Muslim terrorist atrocities " whoops, sorry, “anti-Islamic activities” " accompanied by the relevant chapter and verse from the Koran. Jacqui Smith banned the filmmaker on “public order” grounds " in other words, the government’s fear that Lord Ahmed meant what he said about a 10,000-strong mob besieging the Palace of Westminster. You might conceivably get the impression from Wilders’s movie that many Muslims are irrational and violent types it’s best to steer well clear of. But, if you didn’t, Jacqui Smith pretty much confirmed it: We can’t have chaps walking around saying Muslims are violent because they’ll go bananas and smash the place up.

So, confronted by blackmail, the British government caved. So did the Pakistani government in Swat. But, in fairness to Islamabad, they waited until the shooting was well underway before throwing in the towel. In London, you no longer have to go that far. You just give the impression your more excitable chums might not be able to restrain themselves. “Nice little G7 advanced western democracy you got here. Shame if anything were to happen to it.” Twenty years ago this month, Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative ministry defended the right of a left-wing author Salman Rushdie to publish a book in the face of Muslim riots and the Ayatollah Khomeini’s attempted mob hit. Two decades on, a supposedly progressive government surrenders to the mob before it’s even taken to the streets.

In his first TV interview as president, Barack Obama told viewers of al-Arabiya TV that he wanted to restore the “same respect and partnership that America had with the Muslim world as recently as 20 or 30 years ago.” I’m not sure quite what golden age he’s looking back to there " the Beirut barracks slaughter? the embassy hostages? " but the point is, it’s very hard to turn back the clock. Because the facts on the ground change, and change remorselessly. Even in 30 years. Between 1970 and 2000, the developed world declined from just under 30 percent of the global population to just over 20 percent, while the Muslim world increased from 15 percent to 20 percent. And in 2030, it won’t even be possible to re-take that survey, because by that point half the “developed world“ will itself be Muslim: In Bradford " as in London, Amsterdam, Brussels, and almost every other western European city from Malmo to Marseilles " the principal population growth comes from Islam. Thirty years ago, in the Obama golden age, a British documentary-maker was so horrified by the “honor killing” of a teenage member of the House of Saud at the behest of her father, the king’s brother, that he made a famous TV film about it, Death Of A Princess. The furious Saudis threatened a trade boycott with Britain over this unwanted exposure. Today, we have honor killings not just in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, but in Germany, Scandinavia, Britain, Toronto, Dallas, and Buffalo. And they barely raise an eyebrow.

Along with the demographic growth has come radicalization: It’s not just that there are more Muslims, but that, within that growing population, moderate Islam is on the decline " in Singapore, in the Balkans, in northern England " and radicalized, Arabized, Wahhabized Islam is on the rise. So we have degrees of accommodation: surrender in Islamabad, appeasement in London, acceptance in Toronto and Buffalo.

According to ABC News, a team of UCLA professors have used biogeographic theories to locate Osama bin Laden’s hideout as one of three possible houses in the small town of Parachinar, and have suggested to the Pentagon they keep an eye on these buildings. But the problem isn’t confined to three buildings. It ripples ever outwards, to the new hardcore sharia state in Malakand, up the road to nuclear Islamabad, over to Bradford on that jet-speed conveyor-belt of child brides, down to the House of Lords and beyond.

Meanwhile, President Obama has removed Winston Churchill’s bust from the Oval Office and returned it to the British. Given what Sir Winston had to say about Islam in his book on the Sudanese campaign, the bust will almost certainly be arrested at Heathrow and deported as a threat to public order.

Link:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NmVhYzRmOGYzYmQ3ODRhYjBiMzllYzc2NDNhZmZjMzU=&w=MQ==



There are pockets of Muslim immigrants in the US that concern me. Do they concern you, engineer?

Young boys being raised/taught, as generations before them have been, that women are property. To be beat, treated as objects, etc.

Are we to 'respect' this as part of the Muslim culture? I believe we should actively attack it, hold it up to shame, and judge it for what it is.

Do you agree with this?

The crime, the beheading that this Islamic wack job committed, is simply a symptom of a sick culture. Do you agree with this?

"Progressives' usually want to talk about the "root causes of crime." In this case, I believe you should do so.

Do you agree or disagree with this?
A Lone Voice
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 04:07 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:

and i'd be willing to bet that there are plenty of christian advocates who, while maybe not advocating honour killings would be more than happy to see a woman in her place again


Sadly, you're probably right. But those knuckleheads have to go underground; it is not socially acceptable for them to voice their religious nut job opinions like it was 50 years ago.

Islam? Not the case. And it is here in the US. And I feel parts of that religion are repugnant.

Do you agree with me?

Read the article I posted above if you have the opportunity. Parts are interesting...
0 Replies
 
A Lone Voice
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2009 03:59 pm
@engineer,
Hmm. I realize I may be putting you on the spot with other 'progressives' by posing provocative questions; are you simply going to avoid the issue?

You certainly understand my position now? What is your position?

0 Replies
 
A Lone Voice
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2009 04:01 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:

believe me i'm probably the most judgmental person you'll ever meet



Um, no you're not.

Anyway, do you feel parts of Islam are repugnant? You never seemed to get around to responding...
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Feb, 2009 07:13 pm
alv, you really need to get past the whole "progressives" thing.

you used to seem sensible in your thoughts and debate. now you just come across as being really pissed off at the world.

it's not helping your cause, man.

and about your concern about sharia law being inserted in to american civil law... you do remember mike huckaby announcing that he wanted to see the u.s. constitution reformed to meet christian law, right ?

i don't remember you being to concerned about that at the time.

so what's the deal? you get uptight because muslim kids have to wash their feet during school ? so what ? i had to eat fish every damn friday in school because of the catholic kids in my school; and their religion (not mine) said i had to.

do you feel outrage over that multicultural accommodation?

or does it only bother you if it's a non-white being accommodated?

personally, i don't believe that any religion has any business being accommodated anywhere but their respective houses of worship.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2009 08:05 pm
@A Lone Voice,
A Lone Voice wrote:

Quote:

I'm not sure I understand your position. Everyone agrees this is a crime and that the perpetrator should be arrested and stand trial. There are no "progressives" saying his crime should be excused. No "progressives" are saying honor killings are ok or acceptable inside some cultural bubble. You are creating a mythical group of people who would defend such crimes and then attacking them. Then you wonder why none of them come to debate with you.


OK.

Hey, engineer, are you as concerned as I am about the negative aspects of Muslim culture and its influence in the US? There doesn't seem to be much assimilation as with other cultures in the past, and parts of Islam, i.e. the way they treat women, really bug me.

Isn't the crime of beheading, after all, just a symptom of a dysfunctional culture?

Does it bother you? Do you believe Muslim culture here is negatively impacting our judicial system and schools as it is in Europe? Are you concerned that as Islam grows in the US, there may continue to be a demand for non-Muslims to respect Sharia Law?

Not sure where you live, but I see lots of assimilation here and I don't see any negative influences on our legal system nor do I see any move in our courts to respect any law other than the Constitution. If you have an example of a US court condoning be-headings or otherwise allowing illegal activity to pass under the guise of cultural correctness, please provide a link as I would be very interested. BTW, my understanding is that Islam does not condone "honor" killings.
0 Replies
 
A Lone Voice
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 10:25 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Quote:

alv, you really need to get past the whole "progressives" thing.

you used to seem sensible in your thoughts and debate. now you just come across as being really pissed off at the world.

it's not helping your cause, man.

and about your concern about sharia law being inserted in to american civil law... you do remember mike huckaby announcing that he wanted to see the u.s. constitution reformed to meet christian law, right ?

i don't remember you being to concerned about that at the time.

so what's the deal? you get uptight because muslim kids have to wash their feet during school ? so what ? i had to eat fish every damn friday in school because of the catholic kids in my school; and their religion (not mine) said i had to.

do you feel outrage over that multicultural accommodation?

or does it only bother you if it's a non-white being accommodated?

personally, i don't believe that any religion has any business being accommodated anywhere but their respective houses of worship.



It's like this:

Libs have always seemed a bit close minded when it comes to open debate, and as I've illustrated, they hate to have their core beliefs challenged.

What's ironic is when repubs ran the country, everything was fair game in their eyes. Now, with the far left wing of the dems running things, they seem to be circling the wagons, and are much more defensive of any criticism than any neocon ever was.

My point of this thread? What is it about 'progressives' and their inability to make a judgment about any person or culture unless it is someone from the right?

A lib on Conservatives? They will judge and condemn without any knowledge or facts.

If it involves any culture, race, religion, or any aspect where libs perceive a need to be politically correct, they will flounder about and make excuses and do anything possible to not appear judgmental - as I've shown.

They just can't do it. Case in point is the post above. I've asked pointed, specific questions; I knew they would be evaded and danced around, lest another lib accuse him of being judgemental.

I'm not uptight about Islam in the US, except when that religion is given special treatment; I don't believe any religion should be singled out for special treatment.

And if I feel aspects of a religion are barbaric, I don't have a problem giving my opinion.

As I have with those nut job Christian churches who encouraged the murder of abortion providers. And while the media was quick to condemn in those cases, they seem to reserve judgment with the more barbaric aspects of Islam, don’t you think?

I noticed 'progressives' didn’t have a problem judging nut job Christians. Why not other religions that are just as bad?

BTW, Mike Huckaby is a clown, don't you think?

DTOM, you and I feel exactly the same when it comes to religion, as your last line attests; I believe this also.

Buy why are people so hesitant to criticize Islam and its treatment of women, for example. Acid in the face for 'honor' issues? This is horrible stuff.

I'm just having a grand time calling out the hypocrisy I see in all the libs here at A2K, especially now with the left running the country and mucking things up so bad.

Just my opinion, of course. Which I share here, just as the libs did when the right was in power. They just don’t seem quite so open to debate, though…

DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Feb, 2009 04:10 pm
@A Lone Voice,
yo l voice,

i want to get a decent reply back to you. we're setting up for my sister in law's b-day dinner tonight, so i'm not gonna have time today. but, manana i will.

dtom
0 Replies
 
 

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