0
   

Is an Israeli Jewish sense of victimization perpetuating the conflict with Palestinians?

 
 
Zippo
 
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2009 01:53 pm
A pioneering research study dealing with Israeli Jews' memory of the conflict with the Arabs, from its inception to the present, came into the world together with the war in Gaza. The sweeping support for Operation Cast Lead confirmed the main diagnosis that arises from the study, conducted by Daniel Bar-Tal, one of the world's leading political psychologists, and Rafi Nets-Zehngut, a doctoral student: Israeli Jews' consciousness is characterized by a sense of victimization, a siege mentality, blind patriotism, belligerence, self-righteousness, dehumanization of the Palestinians and insensitivity to their suffering. The fighting in Gaza dashed the little hope Bar-Tal had left - that this public would exchange the drums of war for the cooing of doves.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060061.html
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2009 08:19 pm
@Zippo,
Zippo wrote:

A pioneering research study dealing with Israeli Jews' memory of the conflict with the Arabs, from its inception to the present, came into the world together with the war in Gaza. The sweeping support for Operation Cast Lead confirmed the main diagnosis that arises from the study, conducted by Daniel Bar-Tal, one of the world's leading political psychologists, and Rafi Nets-Zehngut, a doctoral student: Israeli Jews' consciousness is characterized by a sense of victimization, a siege mentality, blind patriotism, belligerence, self-righteousness, dehumanization of the Palestinians and insensitivity to their suffering. The fighting in Gaza dashed the little hope Bar-Tal had left - that this public would exchange the drums of war for the cooing of doves.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060061.html


I am assuming all the above traits are not supposed to be virtues?
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2009 08:30 pm
@Foofie,
Wait till Bibi takes over in Israel in about a month. Reading Zippo then is going to be more fun than is legal in most parts.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2009 08:55 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Wait till Bibi takes over in Israel in about a month. Reading Zippo then is going to be more fun than is legal in most parts.


Iran launching a satellite with a rocket that can go a fair distance might have added a little weight to Israel's concerns? Only two weeks after our President's inauguration. I would guess a few European countries are also taking notice.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2009 09:09 pm
I think that Israel can be understood if you view the state as you would an abused child who grows up to abuse. A sense of entitlement fuels the outward directed rage, in their mind what ever they have done to the palistinains is not even close to what was done to them in the holocaust, so they don't want to hear or think about Palestinian pain. The Jews need to realize that what ever may have happened to them earlier in life done not justify their bad behaviour now. The only way they realize this is if everyone else keeps in their face about their bad behaviour. America does the opposite, we facilitate the Jews warped perception, in the end we do them a disservice.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2009 09:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
Agreeed.
0 Replies
 
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Feb, 2009 11:02 am
@hawkeye10,
They're also liars-

A standard history studies textbook used in Canadian secondary
schools, Canada: The Twentieth Century, told students that the Germans
"boiled" the corpses of their Jewish victims "to make soap." The
Anatomy of Nazism, a booklet published and distributed by the Zionist
"Anti-Defamation League" of B'nai B'rith, stated: "The process of
brutalization did not end with the mass murders themselves. Large
quantities of soap were manufactured from the corpses of those
murdered."
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Feb, 2009 05:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I think that Israel can be understood if you view the state as you would an abused child who grows up to abuse. A sense of entitlement fuels the outward directed rage, in their mind what ever they have done to the palistinains is not even close to what was done to them in the holocaust, so they don't want to hear or think about Palestinian pain. The Jews need to realize that what ever may have happened to them earlier in life done not justify their bad behaviour now. The only way they realize this is if everyone else keeps in their face about their bad behaviour. America does the opposite, we facilitate the Jews warped perception, in the end we do them a disservice.


How should one then view the hostile neighbors that resulted in four major wars since 1948?

I do not think Israel's self-perception is based on what the U.S.A. thinks about Israel's self-perception (redundant but correct). I believe Israel's self-perception is based on an identity that oddly goes back around 1,500 years before Christ walked the Earth. I do not think the U.S.A. was around at that time.

The only non-Jewish people that I would give some credence to understanding Israel's self-identity are our U.S.A. Evangelicals. In my opinion, many other Gentiles approach the topic from a postition of secular logic. That automatically puts them on a different mindset from Israel.

By the way, Sarah Palin had an Israeli flag in her governor's office, in addition to an American flag. She would understand Israel. It might be a shame she is not the VP.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Feb, 2009 05:11 pm
@Zippo,
Zippo wrote:

They're also liars-

A standard history studies textbook used in Canadian secondary
schools, Canada: The Twentieth Century, told students that the Germans
"boiled" the corpses of their Jewish victims "to make soap." The
Anatomy of Nazism, a booklet published and distributed by the Zionist
"Anti-Defamation League" of B'nai B'rith, stated: "The process of
brutalization did not end with the mass murders themselves. Large
quantities of soap were manufactured from the corpses of those
murdered."


Sorry, Zippo. Not only did they make soap out of the corpses, but made lampshades out of the skin. Perhaps, for the living rooms of special people only. You see Zippo, the Nazis did not forget the basic culture of thrift and wasting nothing! They did not think of it as an atrocity. No different than using lard, to make use of the entire pig. Just being a good Nazi, I would think.

And, oh yes, they took the gold out of the teeth. That gold became gold bullion that was supposed to have helped Nazis get out of Europe when the Reich ended.
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Feb, 2009 11:18 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
During World War II it was widely believed that soap was being produced on an industrial scale from the bodies of Jewish concentration camp victims. In reality, while some Nazi scientists experimented with soap made from human corpses, and even engaged in small-scale production,[citation needed] soap from human fat was never produced industrially. The Yad Vashem Memorial has also officially stated that the Nazis did not make soap from Jewish corpses, saying that such rumors were used by the Nazis to frighten camp inmates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_made_from_human_corpses


Laughing
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Feb, 2009 10:27 pm
@Zippo,
Wikipedia is not exactly the Encyclopedia Brittannica.
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Feb, 2009 10:21 am
@Foofie,
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/soap.html

There are hundreds of other credible sources. Just google it.

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/css/images/claWordmarkNew.gif

"After the war, there were many rumors about Holocaust victims having been made into soap. Tom Segev's "The Seventh Million" reports that Holocaust survivors arriving in Israel after 1948 were sometimes derisively referred to as "soap." However, almost all evidence of human fat being used for soap has been proven untrue."

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/histories/myths.html
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Feb, 2009 11:52 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:


I believe Israel's self-perception is based on an identity that oddly goes back around 1,500 years before Christ walked the Earth. I do not think the U.S.A. was around at that time.

The only non-Jewish people that I would give some credence to understanding Israel's self-identity are our U.S.A. Evangelicals. In my opinion, many other Gentiles approach the topic from a postition of secular logic. That automatically puts them on a different mindset from Israel.

By the way, Sarah Palin had an Israeli flag in her governor's office, in addition to an American flag. She would understand Israel. It might be a shame she is not the VP.


That's an amazing post on so many levels.
0 Replies
 
 

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