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Show gender or not ?

 
 
smokingunne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2003 04:44 pm
Smile Thanks Eva, Letty and Montana and any others who openly supported me, I appreciate that.
Those posts were hypothetical situations for the purpose of the poll.
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smokingunne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2003 04:47 pm
Joanne, some of you gave me a tough time, I would appreciate it if you could please point me to the post in question.
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Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2003 04:53 pm
Me thinks Joanna was joshing with ya, Smokingunne. With all the various animal avatars and other oddities we adorn our posts with, I really doubt she expects you to determine our genders from them.

I think the best advice I can give you is to just be yourself in your posts. If there's something humorous you want to share with a group of posters in a thread, do so. If you've incorrectly used the wrong gender or it offends someone, believe me, you won't be the last one to know. This I know from personal experience. Wink

Also, there is no harm in sending a PM to someone that says "hey, I'm not wanting to address you improperly in my responses to your posts and for the life of me, I am unable to determine from your writing whether you are male or female. Help!"
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2003 05:31 pm
You're welcome SG ;-) Lets go to the pub and grab a few brews :-)
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2003 05:51 pm
I have lots of thoughts on all this, am never offended by smokingunne, or ever want to offend him, I but do feel a cultural difference that I want to discuss. The last person I discussed it with that I remember was on abuzz, Medusa was his name at the time; it was about the word 'lady'.

Anyway, I don't have time right now and might not for about a week, to explain my thoughts. Hi to all.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2003 05:57 pm
smokingunne wrote:
I live by a high standard of morals, those posts are to display how a gender icon would give one an idea how to treat the person on the other side. I like to speak to a lady in the way a lady should be spoken to.


I think the point of many of us would be that we dont want to be spoken to on the basis of our gender. We want you to react to our words, not to who you think might be behind them.

Of course this quickly becomes untenable, as all of us will 'betray' whether we're a guy or a gal (etc) quickly enough through the stories we tell about ourselves. So once you get to know us, you'll know that, too. But there's no reason to know it sooner than that, though, I think.

When I post on Politics, I want people to judge my arguments on the basis of their worth, un-burdened in any way by what or who they think I am. Every info on whether you're young, old, male, female, higher or lower educated, from town or city just tends to cloud the issue, provoking modes of reaction that are tailored to assumptions related to all of that.

I catch myself at it, too, conjuring up mental images of fellow-posters and then catching myself at reacting more mildly, more sharply, more sympathetic or curious or impatient than I would have had if my "mental image" were different. Yeh - 's like with the avatars - <digs up old post> -

nimh wrote:
I am avatar-less because I dont want people to relate the views or arguments I express with what they can glean about me from an avatar. Dont want that kind of cross-influence.

Thats cause I find myself greatly, if mostly subliminally, affected by others' avatars. No matter how irrational or unfair that is, and no matter how much I resolve to not do it, I find myself simply reading things differently if I know (b/c of the avatar) that someone is old, young, white, female, silly, romantic, self-important. A post that would have seemed surprisingly thoughtful next to the winking pigeon to its left, suddenly seems annoyingly pompous in juxtaposition with the all-seeing hawk the poster has chosen as self-portrait.

I actually have to correct myself for such instinctive 'contextualisations' all the time, and I dont like that. Hence choosing to want to be judged exclusively on what I write.

Of course the same kind of interference comes up, anyway, when people start relating your carefully wrought post on identity and totalitarianism in Xinjiang with the nonsense you posted in a chat thread on the advantages of juggling puppies rather than bananas ... so back in the day I even had two screennames, to keep those two dimensions apart, as well. But I kept mixing them up ;-).


All thats probably pathetically idealistic - cause its unavoidable, of course, this subconscious tailoring of your tone and message to the "properties" of the other poster. You do it in real life all the damn time. But thats exactly what is so attractive about virtual communities - that you have that a lot less.

In real life I might not as easily joke with a teenager, argue with an older man, share personal experiences with 50-year olds or, in general, find that I share experiences, opinions or problems with people of a wholly different age group, class/profession, etc. Thats whats so cool about boards - to discover affinities that are not formatted by preset conceptions of oh - thats a professor / teenager / woman - better talk this/that way to him/her, then.
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2003 06:23 pm
ah, Osso, Medusa. He had as many names and faces as proteus and Dr. Lao. He was known here as Tommy. Like Smokin, he was from Northern Ireland, or so he said. and that's what I mean by subterfuge.

Hey, nimh of the Netherlands. Anastasia knows your secret. Smile

Sheeeeze, and to think that Aa burst my bubble when she told me that Mark Twain did NOT say: A woman is only a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke, nor did he say: Everyone talks about the weather, but no one does anything about it.

goodnight from an avatar that is mine and always will be. Why? Cause it's the only one that I was lucky enough to get to work. Laughing and the only one that I could find that looked as close to what I look life in real life.
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smokingunne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2003 06:30 pm
Laughing C'mon Letty, be a bit kinder to yourself, you're a good person. :wink:
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2003 07:21 pm
nimh wrote:
I think the point of many of us would be that we dont want to be spoken to on the basis of our gender. We want you to react to our words, not to who you think might be behind them.

...

Thats whats so cool about boards - to discover affinities that are not formatted by preset conceptions of oh - thats a professor / teenager / woman - better talk this/that way to him/her, then.


VERY much agreed.

Osso, I'm curious about the "lady" thing. I really don't remember how it started, but the sozlet calls... adult human females... "ladies." ("We went to the park and we saw a lady and a man and a dog and a...") She is in a class with other toddlers and their moms, and she was playing with a toy camera and said to one of the other moms, "Hey beautiful lady!" The mom responded with, "I'm not a lady, I'm a WOMAN." The sozlet looked kinda confused. (The mom wasn't really huffy or anything, she was just kind of matter-of-fact about it.) So I'm interested in your perspective.
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Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2003 08:11 pm
Nimh wrote:
I think the point of many of us would be that we dont want to be spoken to on the basis of our gender. We want you to react to our words, not to who you think might be behind them.


A good example for this is one of the threads over in the Politics forum. The discussion was getting rather heated and one of the posters retorted, "my my <name blanked> we are pms ing today aren't we? Try a Midol and have a nice day."
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2003 09:33 pm
No good, Butrflynet. I was very tempted to say exactly the same thing - to someone who is clearly male. The suggestion, of course, is somewhat less complimentary when delivered to a man.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2003 09:41 pm
sozobe wrote:
"I'm not a lady, I'm a WOMAN." The sozlet looked kinda confused. (The mom wasn't really huffy or anything, she was just kind of matter-of-fact about it.) So I'm interested in your perspective.


I'm interested too. One of my projects is to cause others grief by demanding that they cease to use innocuous well-meaning words in favor of the ones I stipulate and I need more supporting arguments. As it stands my position is ludicrous.
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the prince
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 04:56 am
I voted no. It would be too painful to change the sex in my profile depending on how I am feeling on that particular day !!

Twisted Evil
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Grand Duke
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 05:02 am
The easiest way to tell someone's gender is to see if they've posted in 'What are you wearing today' and see what they were wearing. Unless we have loads of transvestite male members, of course!
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 05:04 am
Gautam wrote:
I voted no. It would be too painful to change the sex in my profile depending on how I am feeling on that particular day !!

Twisted Evil


I originally thought you was a girl. Now how could I have made that error? Laughing
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 05:33 am
When I first started to post (on Abuzz), many people assumed that I was a male. That is probably because I am rather assertive. I have noticed subsequently, on both Abuzz and A2K, that women who are forthright and assertive, with lack of other clues, are usually thought of as males by other members, until they reveal their true identities.

That was exactly why, in the beginning of my "internet life", when I wrote in a forum, I wanted to conceal my gender identity. I did not want people to respond to me with some preconceived notion about how one responds to a "lady".

I think that the gender issue on the internet is a great quick study of how people relate differentially to each sex. It also illustrates how many people become uncomfortable when they are unable to determine the sex of an individual with whom they are interacting.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 06:31 am
Craven de Kere wrote:
I'm interested too. One of my projects is to cause others grief by demanding that they cease to use innocuous well-meaning words in favor of the ones I stipulate and I need more supporting arguments. As it stands my position is ludicrous.


Having been in several "debates" with you where the meaning of words became a larger issue than the original question itself, I had to burst out laughing when I read this! lmao
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the prince
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2003 06:43 am
Wilso wrote:

I originally thought you was a girl. Now how could I have made that error? Laughing


Maybe it is because that my natural instinct when I come across an Aussie man is to flirt.

Or maybe because I was having one of my "man, I feel like a woman" days !! Twisted Evil
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2003 02:26 am
I voted yes, because I would like to know whether I am speaking to a man or a woman, a 10 year old, or a 60 year old without having view the individual's posts for months to figure it out. There might be an optional profile question about birth date to get the 10 years old vs. 60 years old part too.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Oct, 2003 03:07 am
Welcome Brandon! You have opened a whole other can of worms.

Why do you want to know our ages?
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