Despite a bipartisan effort...

@Foxfyre,

I'm still looking for the one for the GOP side because I think there is one out there. . . .

Quote:

$500K spent on Dem caucus retreats
By Susan Crabtree
Posted: 02/03/09 07:10 PM [ET]
The House Democratic Caucus spent more than $500,000 in taxpayer money over the past five years for its annual retreats at resorts in Pennsylvania and Virginia.

On Thursday, Democrats will head to the Kingsmill Resort and Spa in historic Williamsburg, Va., for the three-day planning powwow. The resort boasts multiple championship golf courses, a full-service spa and six restaurants.

Individual lawmakers pay for most of the expenses related to retreat lodging through their campaign committees, but the Democratic Caucus subsidizes some of the costs for what aides consider “official business” " to the tune of nearly $100,000 each year, according to a Democratic aide involved in retreat planning.

For instance, the caucus picks up the hefty transportation tab, as well as the thousands of dollars in expenses each year for guest speakers, food and entertainment, according to financial disbursement records.

Democratic leadership sources were reluctant to talk about any aspect of the trip, but they defended it as an important planning session for the entire country. . . .

MORE HERE:
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/500k-spent-on-dem-caucus-retreats-2009-02-03.html

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Okay, it seems the GOP didn't use taxpayer money for their retreat, but are definitely subject to criticism for letting lobbyists help pay for it:

Quote:

$25K GOP retreat fee draws fire
By Susan Crabtree
Posted: 01/21/09 07:56 PM [ET]
Lobbyists willing to pay a $25,000 fee will mingle with House Republicans at their annual winter retreat next week in Hot Springs, Va.

The lobbyists are board members or sit on the private sector advisory committee for the Congressional Institute, a nonprofit organization that arranges conferences and lunches for both parties. Lobbyists attending the event will have no part in the closed-door caucus planning session, but lawmakers and lobbyists alike said business does come up informally.

“Of course it’s about access and building relationships " that’s what this town is all about,” said one lawmaker who has attended the retreats for years. He said lobbyists who travel to the retreats often stay on for after-hours socializing throughout the weekend.

“It’s not like they’re sitting there plugging their corporate issues " but as with anything, their clients’ interests inevitably come up.”

No one attending the conference " lawmakers or lobbyists " are breaking any House rules. While lawmakers cannot take trips that last more than two days with an entity that employs lobbyists, the rules say nothing about travel put together by a nonprofit organization with lobbyists as board members.

MORE HERE:
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/25k-gop-retreat-fee-draws-fire-2009-01-21.html

0 Replies

@maporsche,

That he did.

I'm becoming a little tired of the ease with which he caves in to points being pressed from the right.

In that light it's pretty funny to still hear Foxfyre ascribe "Marxist tinged socialism" to him.

(And Fox, what do you even mean with that, "Marxist tinged socialism"? Seriously, are you just stringing together ideological bugwords in ever new combined phrases? I mean, as opposed to what? Non-Marxist socialism? It exists, for sure, though mostly in the recesses of political history rather than in current organised politics ... but what? Would his "socialism" have been less ominous if it had been of the non-Marxist type? Say, if he were a utopian socialist or something?

Somehow I doubt that you really wanted to say something about the doctrinal thickets of socialism, so what is this even supposed to convey, "Marxist tinged socialism"? It would be kind of hilarious if it wasn't kind of sad to see conservatives randomly throw around these terms they obviously dont have a clue about, other than that they think they can all be used as shorthand for "danger! lefty!")

3 Replies

@nimh,

"Spreading the wealth", using revolution to wrest power from the wealthy and return it to the people (i.e. government), increasing the power of the people (i.e. government) by infusing it into means of production and making government more and more of a necessity to keep the system going and make the people more and more dependent upon the government until capitalism is defeated. All these are tinged with Marxism. The only key component missing is the idea that once the revolution is completed, all will live in utopian harmonious equality and government will no longer be necessary.

1 Reply

@nimh,

B ecause you are a doctrinare Socialist from Europe, Nimh, you do not understand the American m ind. I am sure, since you are an intellectual bigot, that you will not accept the position laid out b y Irving Kristol in the following which , for me, opens up the term_Marxist Tinged Socialism------
NOTE THE ALLUSION TO "ITS ORIGINAL PRE-MARXIAN FORM". But I know that you are a better scholar than Irving Kristol--sure!

quote Kristol--
Socialism did not succeed; it failed. The socialist impulse was, like all human impulses, a mixed thing. But it was--particularly in its original, pre-Marxian form, which was never quite extinguished--as much a philosophical ideal as an ideology. It set out to master man's fate, not rationalize it. It aimed at a community of virtuous men, whose dominant motive would be compassion and fellow-feeling. Whether or not this ideal is intrinsically utopian--i.e., unsuited to man's fallen nature--is endlessly arguable. But what is absolutely clear is that socialism turned out to be utterly unsuited to the nature of modern man. For, in this nature, concupiscence is stronger than compassion--a concupiscence that is constantly stimulated (even as it is fleetingly satisfied) by the unfolding promise of modern technology to create ever greater wealth. Socialists thought that the "abolition of poverty" would purify and ennoble human nature, and were therefore persuaded that technology worked ineluctably in its favor. They turned out to be wrong. In large areas of the world today, there is wealth enough for people to live full and contented lives in socialist equality and fraternity--if only people wanted to. They do not. What they want is--more. Though what they want more for, they do not know.

**************************************************************

Socialism is dead-Nimh- It is dying even in China. Get used to it!

0 Replies

@nimh,

Nimh wrote:

I'm becoming a little tired of the ease with which he caves in to points being pressed from the right.

Funny....I used to say the same thing about the ease with which Bush caved to the points being pressed from the left.

2 Replies

@slkshock7,

Please remember, Slkshock, that Nimh writes from a European perspective. Like so many Europeans who live in abysmal conditions. he is envious of our wealth and would like to see us drown in debt. He is, I am certain, cheering on those left wingers who would load us up with useless pork in our budget.

0 Replies

@slkshock7,

slkshock- Today's Wall Street Journal-P. A3, has a story--GOP WIELDS MORE INFLUENCE OVER THE STIMULUS PACKAGE.

Note below from the article---

"Not all Democrats are certain to vote with the White House. Senator Ben Nelson(D Neb.) is working with A DOZEN OR MORE MODERATE DEMOCRATS TO FIND WAYS TO SCALE BACK THE PACKAGE"

This kind of thing appalls Nimh who thinks that government should be run like the Politbur--No dissention from our leader is allowed---

1 Reply

@genoves,

Genoves,
It's kind of funny that the GOP is being given so much credit for the success or failure of this bill. A couple of months ago, all I heard were death knells for the GOP and victorious cries of unassailable political supremacy for the Democrats.

And to be brutally honest, the Dems could have enjoyed political supremacy for years, maybe decades, if they had wielded a lighter touch. Instead, they go for broke on one of the first initiatives of the President and completely botched it. I always knew the Dems would over-reach, but I never dreamed it would happen less than a month into Obama's presidency.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Tax cuts combined with the reduction in the size of our government is the only way to make things better.

This democrat plan to spend billions while expanding government will lead to double
digit inflation like this country experienced in the 70's under president Jimmy Carter.

PrezBO, Pelosi and Reid are going to ruin this country ASAP.

No thanks.

where were yout he alst 8 years?

bush already ruine dit, if you have been paying attention?

surely you noticed?

you display an odd ability to blame stuff on obama that happened a long long time ago.

1 Reply

@OGIONIK,

if they renovate federal buildings, people ahev to renovate them, if they want art done, people ahev to be hired,etc..

now the smoking one, take it out let them die off.

pure logic, my aunt told me smoking doesnt hurt your lungs, i was like WTF O_o

let them die for their stupidity, our gene pool needs culling anyway.

but anything that requires work to be done, begets hiring.

0 Replies

@slkshock7,

slkshock7 wrote:

Genoves,
It's kind of funny that the GOP is being given so much credit for the success or failure of this bill. A couple of months ago, all I heard were death knells for the GOP and victorious cries of unassailable political supremacy for the Democrats.

And to be brutally honest, the Dems could have enjoyed political supremacy for years, maybe decades, if they had wielded a lighter touch. Instead, they go for broke on one of the first initiatives of the President and completely botched it. I always knew the Dems would over-reach, but I never dreamed it would happen less than a month into Obama's presidency.

You never dreamed it?

Remember that it was early on in the first Clinton administration that the Democrat majority with a brand new Democrat president went for broke on national healthcare--blatant socialization of 13% of the U.S. economy. Scared the people so bad they put Republicans into the majority in the House and Senate in 1994 for the first time in like forever.

It isn't too late for them to reverse a similar boondoggle this time and get back to a well-thought-out, sensible, and effective approach, and they sure need to think about it now before the fat is in the fire.

0 Replies

Do you idiots honestly think that this counts as 'over-reaching?' Laughing

Worst economy in at least 30 years, and yesterday 36 out of 41 Republican senators voted to scrap all spending in the bill. Every piece of it, including the infrastructure spending.

We're not talking about a group who is serious about addressing the problem, but instead a group who is interested in Tax Cuts and only Tax Cuts as the solution to EVERY problem. House on fire? Cut taxes! Flat tire? Cut Taxes!

You bunch need to realize that the ideology of Republicans has been Repudiated, is in the wilderness, and people aren't just going to leap into your lap over little quibbles you have with Obama. You still don't get what a deep hole you are in, which is funny Laughing

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

I recall an interesting article (not long after the current election) discussing Carter's troubles with the dem-controlled congress in 1977; as an outsider bent on reform, he was quickly marginalized by his own party.

As I mentioned in previous posts, Obama's promise of jobs through infrastructure seems to have been hijacked by his own party leadership, and he just now seems to be raising up to it. Looks like the moderates from both parties might help him do so, which will be a good thing...

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cyclopitchorn should put his copy of Das Kapital aside for a moment to catch up on the news. Cyclo wrote--The worst economy is thirty years and 31 out of 46 Republican Senators voted to scrap all the spending in the bill.

Cyclo ob viously does not know that there are some( GASP) Democrats who do not agree with the Socialistic overspending pressed by the Administration.

Quote from the Wall Stree Journal- P. A3--2/5/2009-

HEADLINE-

GOP wields more influence over the stimulus bill-

quote-

"NOT ALL (GULP) DEMOCRATS ARE CERTAIN TO VOTE WITH THE WHITE HOUSE. SENATOR BEN NELSON( d e m o c r a t-Neb.) IS WORKING WITH A D O Z E N OR MORE MODERATE DEMOCRATS TO FIND A WAY TO SCALE BACK THE PACKAGE--SCALE BACK THE PACKAGE--SCALE BACK THE PACKAGE"

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Why do you idiot Dems only care about spending for anything and everything?

There has never been a successsful economic plan that revolved around spending as much as you can, as fast as you can, as broadly as you can, without regard for what you could afford. It's a recipe for bankruptcy....Wake up and smell the coffee, the bill is dead...you've lost the support of many Democrats, almost all Republicans and the american people.

Heck, rather than giving various govt agencies and commercial ventures billions of dollars, why not simply take that $890B and give every man, woman and child in the US a check for $3000. A big chunk of folks would spend this money in the economy...others would use it to put a downpayment on a house, thus saving the housing market, and others would put into savings plans or into the market.

1 Reply

@nimh,

I would NEVER call Barney Frank. I met him at a party and despite the fact that I was very nice to him, he ignored me. I think I am in love with him but he did not reciprocate. How cruel!

But something has to be done about Ben Nelson( D. Nebraska) --He is leading a dozen or so DEMOCRATS to water down President Obama's initiatives.

Where is Nebraska anyway? In New York, we never heard of it!!!

0 Replies

@slkshock7,

You don't seem to realize that nobody is looking to Republicans for economic advice any longer. It was your bunch who crashed the car into a wall, what makes you think people want to hear how to fix the car from you?

You're just a neo-hooverite; advocating doing nothing at a time of crisis, b/c of your ideology.

If people wanted that sort of governance, don't you think that they would have elected Republicans instead of Democrats?

You should come to terms with the consequences of the last two elections.

Cycloptichorn

3 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

You don't seem to realize that nobody is looking to Republicans for economic advice any longer. It was your bunch who crashed the car into a wall, what makes you think people want to hear how to fix the car from you?

You're just a neo-hooverite; advocating doing nothing at a time of crisis, b/c of your ideology.

If people wanted that sort of governance, don't you think that they would have elected Republicans instead of Democrats?

You should come to terms with the consequences of the last two elections.

Cycloptichorn

People (a little over half) voted for 'change they can believe in."

Yet, they have seen Obama appoint the same old, tired political hacks to his admin. And they have seen the same old problems with the elite, out of touch politicians living above the rules, (not paying taxes, etc), that the little people have to follow.

And now, they worry when they see these same political hacks hijack Obama's original intentions (or what he said was his original intent with a spending bill; jobs through infrastructure.)

Obama needs to pull away from the extreme left of his party. He didn't run as a left wing candidate. If he attempts to govern as one, there will be push back...

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Your analogy is lacking (not that I disagree with your point)....BUT knowing how to drive the car has nothing to do with knowing how to fix the car.

A mechanic can fix a car, but that doesn't make him a race car driver.

Hell, I'm sure that 99.99% of airplane mechanics can't fly the airplane's they fix.

I'm sure you see why your analogy is a bad one for expressing your point now.

1 Reply

Despite a bipartisan effort...

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