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Democratic Childishness and Republican Grace in Defeat

 
 
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 07:42 am
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/860/slide_860_15065_large.jpg

Is it just me or do the Dems always seem particularly childish and gloating when they win presidential elections? Or is simply that Republicans go into defeat with much more maturity and grace.

There has not been much this election season for conservatives to laud, but one can certainly be proud of the way the Bush Administration left the White House and conservatives yielded power to the left. You only need to contrast this peaceful and celebratory transition with the protest filled, egg and fruit-throwing, flag-burning crowds in 2001 and 2005. The only protests of any significance at all yesterday were not from the right side of the political spectrum, but rather the left (Code Pink took to throwing shoes, and others of the extreme left screamed about the need to arrest Bush and Cheney).

In 2001 there were nine folks arrested...in 2005, 14 were arrested. News reports are saying that there were no arrests yesterday. In 2001, the Clinton administration turned the White House over complete with $20K of stolen keyboards, cellphones, doorknobs, presidential medallions, etc. This year, there have been no such reports.


 
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 08:00 am
@slkshock7,
Quote:
Is it just me or do the Dems always seem particularly childish and gloating when they win presidential elections?


Neither.

It definitely is not just you…it is damn near all the silly conservatives of America who dream up this kind of **** to feel good about their dreary lives.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 08:12 am
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha . . .
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 08:16 am
@Frank Apisa,
Thanks for proving my point...Frank
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 08:22 am
@slkshock7,
Quote:

In 2001, the Clinton administration turned the White House over complete with $20K of stolen keyboards, cellphones, doorknobs, presidential medallions, etc. This year, there have been no such reports.

The GAO investigated and found the damage was not that different from other transitions. The GAO does not report that $20K of items were "stolen".

From the GAO report about the 1993 transition-
Quote:
Five EOP staff told us they observed damage, vandalism, or pranks in the
White House complex when they worked there during past transitions.
Regarding the 1993 transition, an EOP employee said that she observed five
desks containing prank pictures of former Vice President Gore with written
messages on them and a banner on a balcony. In addition, two EOP staff (a
different employee for each of the following observations) said he or she
observed 1 to 2 poster-sized signs, and 5 to 10 missing office signs. Another
EOP employee showed us writing inside a desk that was dated January
1993.


An investigation of this transition would find similar damage. But the Democrats seem to be above making childish claims that the Bush administration destroyed the EOP offices.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 08:25 am
@slkshock7,
Sorry to disappoint you, Slkshock...but there is no way I can possibly prove your point.

I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT. I am an Independent.

I AM NOT A LIBERAL.

One does not have to be a Democrat or a liberal to see that there is an element of American conservatism (not every conservative) who are a bunch of cry babies...who want to find every occasion to take shots at supposed failings of liberals or Democrats.

I just think it is such a joke...I try to make light of it at every opportunity.

But like I said...sorry to disappoint you, but what I said could not possibly have proved your point.
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 08:31 am
@slkshock7,
Thank god the Republicans would never be so immature...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/1/120340_e62e70ad3c.jpg
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 10:50 am
@Frank Apisa,
Right...and I'm not a conservative...I'm independent Rolling Eyes
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 11:28 am
@slkshock7,
Whatever?

But if you've got some money to lose...I can prove that I am a registered Independent...and I can produce reams of stuff suggesting I am not a liberal.

I certainly didn't write my bio material specially for this thread when I wrote it years ago. Read that and see what I said way back then.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 11:31 am
This whole thread can be summed up by "anyone who disagrees with me is a stupid-head!"

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 12:11 pm
@DrewDad,
Actually, DD...that sounds even more mature than the tone of this thread.
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 12:36 pm
@parados,
GAO wrote:

Incidents such as the removal of keys from computer keyboards; the theft
of various items; the leaving of certain voice mail messages, signs, and
written messages; and the placing of glue on desk drawers, clearly were
done intentionally. Any intentional damage at the White House complex,
which is a national treasure, is both inappropriate and a serious matter.
The theft of or willful damage to government property would constitute a
criminal act in violation of federal law. Although it is clear that some of the
reported incidents were intentional, such as the removal and damaging of
keys on computer keyboards, it was unclear whether, in all cases, the
reported incidents occurred, when they occurred, how many occurred, and
who was responsible for them.


"....was clearly intentional" is pretty damning....but maybe there's some truth to your claim that this was not $20K

GAO wrote:
The EOP and GSA provided documentation indicating
that at least $9,324 was spent to repair and replace items that were
observed broken or missing in specific locations and for cleaning services
in offices where observations were made.

EOP and GSA officials also provided estimates of $3,750 to $4,675 in costs
that could have been incurred or may be spent in the future to replace
missing items for which no documentation, such as facility request forms
or purchase records, was available.

Based on what the White House said were extremely conservative
estimates and straightforward documentation, the White House said that
the government incurred costs of at least $6,020 to replace missing
telephone labels and reroute forwarded telephones.


Nope...still doesn't work...looks like GAO reports between $19094 and $20019.

Maybe the "business as usual" argument flies....

GAO wrote:
Seven EOP staff and one former Clinton administration employee who had worked in the White House complex during previous transitions made comparisons regarding the condition of the space during the 2001 transition with conditions during previous transitions. Six EOP staff said that the condition was worse in 2001 than previous transitions, while one
EOP employee and one former Clinton administration employee said the office space was worse in 1993 than 2001. Because of the lack of definitive data available to compare the extent of damage, vandalism, and pranks during the 2001 transition with past transitions, we were unable to conclude whether the 2001 transition was worse than previous ones.


So we have 8 people interviewed with 6 saying it was worse in 2001. This would seem to be pretty conclusive by any reasonable measure, although I understand GAO's point that they didn't have definitive data from which to compare. But the subjective evidence is pretty strong. And we certainly have definitive data now, so we'll see shortly if the condition of the WH this year is better or worse than in 2001.

source
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 12:48 pm
@slkshock7,
Quote:
The only protests of any significance at all yesterday were not from the right side of the political spectrum, but rather the left (Code Pink took to throwing shoes, and others of the extreme left screamed about the need to arrest Bush and Cheney).


For heavens sake, someone is bitching and whining about others fundamental right to protest.

The saddest part of all this is that there wasn't a majority of people demanding the felons/war criminals arrest. But then you folks have such a long history of war criminals/felons exiting various government positions that it's become rather ho-hum for you.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 01:03 pm
@slkshock7,
Quote:
$20K of stolen keyboards, cellphones, doorknobs, presidential medallions, etc. This year, there have been no such reports.


Suddenly, your "etc" becomes a lot of items you didn't include in your list.
Now, its cleaning, rerouting phone calls and replacing "missing items" that are not clearly stolen. In fact, there isn't anything clearly "stolen" in the GAO report figures you listed.

Your original statement is still not factual based on the GAO report. You can pretend it is but there was not $20K in stolen items nor was there $20K in intentional damage in the GAO report.

You failed to include the notes on the figures that GAO put forward.
For instance on the $6,000 for phone labeling
Quote:
However, both the orders listed on the closed orders log and the individual
work orders, as well as the blanket work orders, cited other services
besides labeling, and it was not clear to us from the documentation
provided the extent to which relabeling was done solely to replace missing
labels or would have been necessary anyway due to changes requested by
new office occupants. None of the documents provided specifically cited
correcting forwarded telephones.
Thus, while we do not question that
costs were incurred to replace labels or reroute forwarded telephones, we
do not believe the documentation provided is clear enough to indicate what
those costs were.


The figure also includes $2100-$2200 for door knobs which it is unknown if they were missing or replaced since there is no documentation showing the work.

Your original claim was bogus and remains bogus.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 03:14 pm
@slkshock7,
You seem to know who the thumbed nose was aimed at. Care to enlighten us or are you just making assumptions?

0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 05:43 pm
@slkshock7,
Quote:
Or is simply that Republicans go into defeat with much more maturity and grace.


1. The 2001 election was not resolved by the voters, the vote recount was halted. There was a lot of reason for there to be a demonstration of partisan resentment.

2. You should spend some time viewing the conservative pundant websites surrounding the vote recount in Minnesota. You'll find many very similar demonstrations of immaturity and lack of grace.

At your request, I'm sure we can provide some examples.
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 07:29 pm
@Butrflynet,
Oh, YES! Please do provide some examples. This will be fun! Smile

0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 07:46 pm
The whole transition vandal scandal was blown out of proportion.

http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/05/23/vandals/print.html
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 10:17 pm
@squinney,
Nice find, Squinney.

When I have some time to do an internet scavenger hunt, I'll post some of those examples.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2009 06:31 am
One thing I have learned after several years of reading and posting on A2K is that childishness is not the sole property of democrats or republicans or independents. It is sprinkled throughout in a rather even mixture among all parties. And at times even the most adult-like among us is not immune to being dusted with its tendencies.
0 Replies
 
 

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