63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
Builder
 
  0  
Sat 4 Feb, 2017 03:19 am
@RABEL222,
African Israelis? I don't get the flow of your thoughts here.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 4 Feb, 2017 04:14 am
@Builder,
You wouldn't. The big picture has always eluded your tunnel vision.

Quote:
The most ancient communities of African Jews are the Ethiopian, Sephardi, and Mizrahi Jews of North Africa and the Horn of Africa.

In the seventh century, many Spanish Jews fled persecution under the Visigoths to North Africa, where they made their homes in the Byzantine-dominated cities along the Mediterranean coast. Others arrived after the expulsion from Iberia. Remnants of longstanding Jewish communities remain in Morocco, Tunisia, and the Spanish cities of Ceuta and Melilla. There is a much-diminished but still vibrant community on the island of Djerba in Tunisia. Since 1948 and the civil war to establish Israel, which aroused hostility in Muslim lands, most other North African Jews emigrated to Israel.
In 1975, the Israeli religious authorities and government recognized the Beta Israel of Ethiopia as legally Jewish. Hundreds of persons who wanted to emigrate to Israel were air-lifted under the leadership of Prime Minister Menachem Begin. Significant immigration to Israel continues into the 21st century. Begin had obtained an official ruling from the Israeli Sephardi Chief Rabbi (or Rishon LeTzion) Ovadia Yosef that the Beta Israel were descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes. Rabbis believed they were probably descendants of the Tribe of Dan; rabbinical responsa discussing issues related to the people date back hundreds of years.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Africa
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 4 Feb, 2017 05:09 am
@izzythepush,
Besides that, some those African Jews often feel being Israeli Jews second class.
Ethiopian Jews in Israel
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 4 Feb, 2017 05:15 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I know, there's a real hierarchy.
1. European/American Ashkenazi
2. Russian Ashkenazi
3. Indigenous Sephardic
4 African Sephardic
5 Arab Israeli
6 Palestinians

It's not apartheid, because they don't practice that, but it sure puts our class system into perspective.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  0  
Sat 4 Feb, 2017 05:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
But isn't the love universal, Walter?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 4 Feb, 2017 06:17 am
@Builder,
I didn't want to give any of my guesses about universal love but just wanted to add a link for the African Jews, those Jews who you questioned.
Builder
 
  0  
Sat 4 Feb, 2017 06:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yeah, pretty obvious that the love isn't universal.

Thanks for your intuit input. Cheers.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 4 Feb, 2017 03:27 pm
@izzythepush,
Good info. Thanks for sharing. I have visited a mosque in Sousse, Tunisia.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Mon 27 Feb, 2017 05:48 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Unlike the Biblical Account the common ancestors of moden Jews and modern Palestinians were indigenous to modern day Israel.

Indeed, genetic evidence points to Sepharads and Palestinians descending from the same Canaanite / Phoenicien ancestors. Religion is like a coat of paint.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 19 Mar, 2017 05:32 am
Quote:
A UN official has resigned after saying the UN had pressured her to withdraw a report accusing Israel of apartheid over its treatment of Palestinians.

The report was published by the Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia (ESCWA), led by Under Secretary General Rima Khalaf.

She had said it was the first to conclude Israel was a racist state.

UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres had distanced himself from the report, saying it reflected its authors' views.

As of Friday, it was no longer visible on the ESCWA's website.

Speaking in the Lebanese capital Beirut, Ms Khalaf, a Jordanian, said she had submitted her resignation to Mr Guterres after he insisted on the report's withdrawal.

"We expected of course that Israel and its allies would put huge pressure on the secretary general of the UN so that he would disavow the report, and that they would ask him to withdraw it," she was quoted as saying by AFP news agency.
Israel has condemned the report. "The attempt to smear and falsely label the only true democracy in the Middle East by creating a false analogy is despicable and constitutes a blatant lie," Israeli UN Ambassador Danny Danon said in a statement.

The report itself said it had established on the "basis of scholarly inquiry and overwhelming evidence, that Israel is guilty of the crime of apartheid".

It was published on Wednesday by the ESCWA, which promotes economic and social development in 18 Arab countries, and is based in Beirut.

In 2014, the then US Secretary of State, John Kerry, warned that Israel risked becoming "an apartheid state" if a two-state solution to its conflict with the Palestinians was not found soon.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39310154
Baldimo
 
  0  
Sun 19 Mar, 2017 05:32 pm
@izzythepush,
A Jordanian, speaking from Lebanon, talking about a report that is critical of Israel...
perennialloner
 
  2  
Sun 19 Mar, 2017 07:38 pm
@Baldimo,
She's right, though. Just because you may think Palestinians are bad people, that does not make it right for them to effectively be non-citizens. That is an injustice. What type of universe are you people living in where it's okay for people to be subjugated just because you think they are at fault.

Israel has the power to do something that Palestinians don't, and that is actually bring the conflict to an end. I think people make the mistake of viewing this whole messed up situation as a conflict of two sides, two equals, who must BOTH equally compromise. Where are the two equals? There's Israel, whose government controls what happens to Palestinians, both in legislation and military action, whereas no government controls the Palestinians. There's no central command. Palestinians are literally a bunch of angry people throwing rocks or those with more sophisticated means bombing who they are taught from birth is their enemy. That is Palestine. By definition, Palestinians lack agency, so how are they to take responsibility. This is the crux of the problem. There are people who want to wholly blame a people who have no authority and do not act as a unit for a very complex problem. There's no resolution in sight with that approach. Palestinians are not in a position to compromise. There's no real consensus among them, and any attempts at compromise would be seen as betrayals for this reason.

Israel holds the cards, and I'd argue the responsibility, to compromise. It has the opportunity to alleviate the suffering of people who have suffered long enough if it were just to let go of national and racial pride, even just a teensy bit.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 19 Mar, 2017 08:11 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
A UN official has resigned after saying the UN had pressured her to withdraw a report accusing Israel of apartheid over its treatment of Palestinians.

Good.

Good riddance.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Sun 19 Mar, 2017 08:31 pm
@perennialloner,
perennialloner wrote:
She's right, though.

No. There was nothing "right" about her Nazi hate speech.


perennialloner wrote:
Just because you may think Palestinians are bad people, that does not make it right for them to effectively be non-citizens. That is an injustice.

Nonsense. Is it an injustice that Mexicans and Canadians are not allowed to automatically become US citizens?

Palestinians have no right to become citizens of another country.


perennialloner wrote:
What type of universe are you people living in where it's okay for people to be subjugated just because you think they are at fault.

The Palestinians are not being subjugated.


perennialloner wrote:
Israel has the power to do something that Palestinians don't, and that is actually bring the conflict to an end.

Yes, but that would involve using force to seize the parts of the West Bank that Israel wants to keep for themselves. And that makes the liberals whine.

Someday though Israel will finally lose their patience and do just that. I hope I live to see it.


perennialloner wrote:
I think people make the mistake of viewing this whole messed up situation as a conflict of two sides, two equals, who must BOTH equally compromise.

That's not a mistake. If there is to be a negotiated solution, both sides must indeed compromise.


perennialloner wrote:
Where are the two equals? There's Israel, whose government controls what happens to Palestinians, both in legislation and military action, whereas no government controls the Palestinians. There's no central command. Palestinians are literally a bunch of angry people throwing rocks or those with more sophisticated means bombing who they are taught from birth is their enemy. That is Palestine. By definition, Palestinians lack agency, so how are they to take responsibility. This is the crux of the problem. There are people who want to wholly blame a people who have no authority and do not act as a unit for a very complex problem. There's no resolution in sight with that approach. Palestinians are not in a position to compromise. There's no real consensus among them, and any attempts at compromise would be seen as betrayals for this reason.

That is indeed a problem. As for blaming the Palestinians for the problem, that is a natural reaction to people unfairly blaming Israel for that problem.

When people unfairly blame Israel for the fact that the Palestinians aren't making peace, it is natural for fair-minded people to recoil at the injustice of blaming Israel. And the natural response is to point out that it is the Palestinians who are refusing to make peace.

The best way to get people to stop condemning the Palestinians is to take all the people who condemn Israel, and incarcerate them at a facility like Guantanamo so no one will have to listen to their hate (except for the guards perhaps). Once people no longer have to defend Israel from hate speech, perhaps talk can shift to how to solve the problem of the Palestinians' lack of central authority.


perennialloner wrote:
Israel holds the cards,

Yes, but the rest of the world is pressuring Israel to not impose a military solution. Israel will have to lose their temper and start shooting before they are able to play those cards.


perennialloner wrote:
and I'd argue the responsibility, to compromise.

Israel has been offering to compromise for decades now.


perennialloner wrote:
It has the opportunity to alleviate the suffering of people who have suffered long enough if it were just to let go of national and racial pride, even just a teensy bit.

I doubt that. The Palestinians will not stop suffering until they agree to compromise with Israel.
perennialloner
 
  1  
Sun 19 Mar, 2017 10:49 pm
@oralloy,
When I said compromise, I meant make concessions. Israel needs to make concessions. the other stuff isn't worth arguing about to me. We disagree.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 02:17 am
@perennialloner,
perennialloner wrote:
When I said compromise, I meant make concessions.

I know.


perennialloner wrote:
Israel needs to make concessions.

Israel has been offering to make concessions for decades now.


perennialloner wrote:
the other stuff isn't worth arguing about to me. We disagree.

I doubt that anyone can find any factual errors in what I posted.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 04:02 am
@perennialloner,
Don't waste your time, these people are fanatics. Oralloy has called all the Palestinians vermin and Baldimo wants to exterminate all Muslims. Remember Americans like this butchered the best part of the native population in their own country, one that inspired Hitler they like genocide.

These are the people who after the Sandy Hook massacre marched in support of the killers.
perennialloner
 
  3  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 07:14 am
@oralloy,
I don't believe it's a matter of offering. Israel needs to make concessions. Also, it is not a natural reaction to blame Palestinians. It is only natural to you who seems to have been raised in or influenced by an environment where you were clearly taught that Palestinians are worthless scum. Your mindset has been molded by colonialist principles passed down so that you accept and promote intrusion without conversation without thinking of the people who arent worthy of consideration bc they are worthless scum. And this is what we are left with: israelis deserve everything, palestianians deserve nothing.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 09:33 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Baldimo wants to exterminate all Muslims.

You are a funny guy who lies and is filled with hate.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 09:55 am
I don't talk to bigots.
 

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