61
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2015 12:42 pm
@Foofie,
How did I not respond to your first person comment:
Quote:

Are you trying to say that all humans are equal? There are no CEO's? There is no bellcurve? No Olympic Gold Medals? No unskilled wage earners?

In my best German accent, let me enlighten you: Zer are vinners und zer are losers; ze vinners vin, und ze losers lose! Zot's life!

The word is "hanged," not hung. Do you enjoy your predictions of gory demises? Sort of puerile, in my superior (yet humble) opinion.


how are you not self id'ing yourself as one of them?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2015 01:21 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:
Israel's only chance of survival on its present course is to remain stronger and better armed that its adversaries,

Well done up to this point.

And easily achieved by bombing Israel's neighbors back to an earlier stone age than the one they are already in.


McTag wrote:
leading it to maintain the economic stranglehold on Gaza

Here you start to go off course. Blockading weapons from reaching child-murdering Palestinians is hardly an economic stranglehold.


McTag wrote:
and leading it to commit more and more egregious landgrab and human rights violation on its neighbours.

And now you go wildly off course. Israel is doing nothing of the sort.


McTag wrote:
I don't discuss this often with my Jewish friends, because none of us can see a solution.

Solution:

Finish construction of the Security Fence, including around Jerusalem and in areas where Israel is currently pressured not to complete it.

Annex all land on the Israeli side of the Security Fence. Fully develop the E-1 Area.

On the Palestinian side of the Security Fence, regain full military control over all of Area B.

Let the Palestinians make their "state" out of Area A, and Area A alone.

That wasn't so hard to come up with.


McTag wrote:
but not under these circumstances. It's an affront to civilisation, and to the ideals of the Jewish state.

Nonsense.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2015 01:28 pm
@Foofie,
Gosh Foof. Have you read the constitution? It said all people are created equal. You must be a Mexican or a Brazilian. Of course some are born billionares. They really have an advantage.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2015 01:36 pm
@Foofie,
Foof, all one has to do to get an idea of the fact that you believe yourself to be in the upperclass and disdain the underclasses like the street sweepers and garbagemen is read your posts. You show much more what you are than you realize. I hope you have fun correcting my english and spelling. Because I am sure my comments will go right over your head.
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2015 07:42 pm
Gaza: 'Israeli War Crimes' Followed Soldier's Capture - Amnesty
Source: BBC

29 July 2015

Amnesty International says there is "strong evidence" Israel committed war crimes in Gaza following the capture of a soldier by Hamas in last year's war.

Its report says at least 135 civilians were killed in a bombardment of Rafah after Lt Hadar Goldin was seized on 1 August. He was later declared dead.

Amnesty said Israel employed a "'gloves-off' policy with devastating consequences for civilians".

Israel dismissed the report as "fundamentally flawed" and one-sided.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33700343
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  4  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 01:21 am
@Foofie,

It isn't long, in discussions such as these, before any criticism of Israel's actions are described as being "anti-semitic".
That is, to use your word, silly.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 03:04 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:
It isn't long, in discussions such as these, before any criticism of Israel's actions are described as being "anti-semitic".
That is, to use your word, silly.

Not silly at all. It is a common theme among anti-Semitism to falsely accuse Jews of doing something horrible, and then to "criticize" them for what they've been falsely accused of.

Since Israel is not being criticized for actual wrongdoing, but is instead being criticized for things they are falsely accused of doing, it is completely appropriate for said criticism to be denounced as anti-Semitism.
McTag
 
  5  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 03:09 am
@oralloy,

Hey, don't let anything like facts get in your way, Oralloy.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 03:11 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:
Hey, don't let anything like facts get in your way, Oralloy.

That won't be a problem. I'm actually the world's foremost defender of facts.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 05:03 am
The history of Israel, its creation, and the events in both Europe and the Mid East that preceeded it, are a reminder of the continuing complexity of human affairs and the greed & cruelty attending it. I believe Israel has indeed foolishly missed opportunities to better its political situation and that of its neighbors, particularly following the 1967 war, and that it has, since then, exploited the Palestinians in a self-reinforcing sequence of injustice, Violent reprisal and more of the same. At the same time I can't fault the motives and actions of the European Jews who fled the continent en masse to create a new homeland in the Middle East ( and doing so in part based on historical committments made to them by both Britain and France). I also recognize the failures in the political development of the Islamic world, without an accepted tradition of secular government or means to restrain extreme religious intolerance, which also contributes to the situation (perversely the Palestinians were relatively free of that).

I think the shrill criticisms of Israel that has become so fashionable lately is a bit over the top and hypocritical, particularly that coming from citizens of countries with their own histrories of empire, religious intolerance, and even of the various duplicities and betrayals that have contributed to the social and political mess in the Middle East today. I suspect that description fits all of us here to a large extent.

There are far worse evils in the world and particularly in the Middle East today than Israel. That doesn't mean that Israel should be free of criticism. However, it strongly suggests (to me at least) that those who focus only on Israel's misdeeds , or who fail in their shrill criticisms to acknowledge the other salient elements of the story and the situation today, are likely hypocritical and themselves a bit guilty of the narrow mindedness and self-serving behaviors of which they accuse others.

I also suspect that if Israel were to suddenly do all of the things its critics demand, we would still find the same levels of oppression and violence in the Middle East we see today - only the details and the identity of the victims would be different. I believe that observation should give some pause to the critics here.

oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 05:39 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I believe Israel has indeed foolishly missed opportunities to better its political situation and that of its neighbors, particularly following the 1967 war, and that it has, since then, exploited the Palestinians in a self-reinforcing sequence of injustce, reprisal and more of the same.

Your belief is incorrect. In 2000-2001 Ehud Barak tried to negotiate a fair arrangement with the Palestinians, only to have the Palestinians collapse the negotiations in a wave of horrendous violence.

A couple years later, Ariel Sharon tried to pull out of Palestinian areas unilaterally, in the hope that Palestinians would become peaceful if left to their own devices. Unfortunately the plan had to be scrapped when it turned out that Palestinians devote themselves to murdering Israeli children once left to their own devices.

A few years after that, Ehud Olmert once again tried to negotiate a fair arrangement with the Palestinians. The Palestinians stonewalled the negotiations until Olmert was out of office.

After that, Benjamin Netanyahu tried to negotiate a fair arrangement with the Palestinians. The Palestinians continued to stonewall the negotiations.

More recently, the Palestinians and their European collaborators went even further and successfully conspired to abrogate the Oslo Accords, destroying the entire framework of the peace process altogether.

And just a year or two ago, Secretary of State Kerry, despite the end of the Oslo Accords, pulled off a miracle and managed to get negotiations back on track. For the first time since Ehud Barak, there was an actual sense of hope that this time negotiations could succeed. The Palestinians responded by sending their demented supporters out to spew the most hideous lies about Israel imaginable until the entire atmosphere of hope was gone and the negotiations collapsed.

Israel has done their part. Palestinians are vermin and need to be controlled as vermin.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 05:45 am
@oralloy,
I think you have adequately characterized you own self-serving intolerance and perverted view of the historical narrative in you own post, so no rebuttal or reply is needed.

Ignorance, intolerance and stupidity can be a paralyzing combination. How do you cope with it?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 05:56 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
perverted view of the historical narrative

I notice your failure to point out any facts that I have wrong.


georgeob1 wrote:
so no rebuttal or reply is needed.

More like no credible rebuttal is possible.


georgeob1 wrote:
Ignorance, intolerance and stupidity can be a paralyzing combination. How do you cope with it?

As far as intelligence goes, I'm the smartest person you've ever interacted with (about a million times smarter than you are).

Your previously-noted failure to point out any fact that I am wrong about makes your claim of ignorance pretty silly.

As for intolerance, congratulations, you actually managed to get a single fact correct in your post. To answer your question about coping, my possession of basic human decency makes intolerance to Palestinian vermin quite easy.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 06:27 am
Israel, Not Iran, Started Middle East Nuclear Arms Race
Claims that the Iran deal will spark a nuclear arms race in the region ignore the fact that Israel has led the race for the last 65 years.

July 29, 2015 | 2:12 p.m. EDT
By: Bruce Riedel, Columnist for Al-Monitor

The debate about the P5+1 agreement with Iran on its nuclear program has already produced a storm of angry rhetoric and a tsunami of opinion pieces. But one issue is notably absent from the debate: the fact that Israel has a nuclear weapons arsenal and sophisticated delivery systems that are decades ahead of anything Iran could develop in the foreseeable future. Iran should be constrained by a global regime from getting the bomb, but the notion that Israel is a weak powerless state like Czechoslovakia in 1938 is ludicrous.

The American intelligence community first detected the development of the Israeli nuclear weapons program through U-2 overhead imagery at the end of the 1950s. President John F. Kennedy pressed Israeli Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion very hard not to proceed with a weapons program, arguing it would precipitate a regional nuclear arms race. Under pressure from Kennedy, Israel agreed to American inspections of its French-supplied Dimona reactor, but then systematically blocked any serious inspection process.

Israel has never signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and has never admitted it has a nuclear weapons arsenal. The United States stopped protesting the Israeli program in the Nixon administration. Neither Jerusalem nor Washington publicly discusses Israel's arsenal. If pressed, US officials refer to an alleged nuclear arsenal.

The Economist this year estimated Israel has 80 nuclear weapons in its arsenal. That puts it just behind India and far ahead of North Korea in terms of the number of bombs.

MORE...

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/07/29/israel-not-iran-started-middle-east-nuclear-arms-race
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 09:13 am
Quote:
The Israeli parliament has passed a law allowing the force-feeding of prisoners on hunger strike.

Under the law, force-feeding an inmate will need to be approved by a judge.

Palestinians held in Israeli jails have used hunger strikes to protest against the policy of detention without charge or trial.

The Israeli Medical Association condemned the law, saying force-feeding was tantamount to torture, and urged doctors not to participate.

The association said it would petition the High Court of Justice against the law, according to Israeli radio.

The law passed by a narrow margin of 46 votes to 40.

Internal Security Minister Gilad Erden said the measure was necessary as "hunger strikes of terrorists in prison have become a tool to pressure and threaten the state of Israel to release terrorists".

Mr Erden's office said the law was initiated following prolonged hunger strikes by prisoners in 2012 in protest at detention without charge.

Earlier this month Israel freed Palestinian prisoner Khader Adnan, an Islamic Jihad activist, who was on hunger strike for 56 days.

Mr Adnan called the new law "Israeli bankruptcy in dealing with Palestinian prisoners who are on hunger strikes".

He had been held for more than a year without charge and his hunger strike had left him in a critical condition.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-33717075
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 09:24 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

How did I not respond to your first person comment:
Quote:

Are you trying to say that all humans are equal? There are no CEO's? There is no bellcurve? No Olympic Gold Medals? No unskilled wage earners?

In my best German accent, let me enlighten you: Zer are vinners und zer are losers; ze vinners vin, und ze losers lose! Zot's life!

The word is "hanged," not hung. Do you enjoy your predictions of gory demises? Sort of puerile, in my superior (yet humble) opinion.


how are you not self id'ing yourself as one of them?


Because there are people that accept his/her place in society, without pretending to be higher on any scale. It is called "knowing one's place," or possibly, "how the game is scored."

Where have I said I am part of anything other than one private citizen? The use of the German accent is just to dramatize how the world works.

And, I would guess you are much younger than myself. If you were ever in the military, you might understand that "rank has its privileges." Also in civilian life; however, rank and privilege is less visible.

Does it really upset you to think that there are people that might think that they are superior, in some way to you? Why? Only a god looks at humans as all starting out the same. The rest of us are born into privilege or under-privilige, intelligence or not so intelligent, good-looks or not such good looks, strength or not so strong, etc., etc.

The world would be more peaceful, if more people understood that one should make the best of the hand they were proverbially dealt (aka, know one's place).
Foofie
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 09:30 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Gosh Foof. Have you read the constitution? It said all people are created equal. You must be a Mexican or a Brazilian. Of course some are born billionares. They really have an advantage.


Yes. Created equal; however, that is in the eyes of the state. And, we all have the opportunity to utilize that equality to advance, if one chooses. Some must be under achievers, regardless of one's equality from birth; otherwise, all would be educated to the point of functioning above a nominal level. So, we have CEO's and much lower paid employees. Isn't that how life works?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 09:35 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Foof, all one has to do to get an idea of the fact that you believe yourself to be in the upperclass and disdain the underclasses like the street sweepers and garbagemen is read your posts. You show much more what you are than you realize. I hope you have fun correcting my english and spelling. Because I am sure my comments will go right over your head.


Sorry. I'm not anywhere near upperclass. However, I do have a disdain for those that take great pride in their lower class ways. You know, the people that make fun of those that go to college, or read books, or don't enjoy a good drunk. Blame my mother for raising me within a culture that emphasized living nominally, but having an education, so one can appreciate a book. One doesn't have to have wealth to act a certain way. Church going Christians are on that track. Non-Christians don't get to live that way?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 09:45 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Foof, all one has to do to get an idea of the fact that you believe yourself to be in the upperclass and disdain the underclasses like the street sweepers and garbagemen is read your posts. You show much more what you are than you realize. I hope you have fun correcting my english and spelling. Because I am sure my comments will go right over your head.


I avoid street sweepers and garbagemen because they are likely alienated from somone that has a higher education, and secular Jews. Gentiles of a certain socio-economic class are often alienated from secular Jews, based on the popular culture depicting Jews in a negative light for a long time. So, I make my life easier by avoiding many groups/demographics. And, upper class Gentiles would often not want anything to do with me socially, since that might affect negatively their social standing, in their respective social class. Only a certain class of Gentile is willing to be friendly to a secular Jew. I've found that to be an occasional WASP, but more likely an Italian-American. That doesn't mean we would be great friends, but sort of friendly acquaintances. In my opinion, in the U.S. non-academic society, secular Jews have few SINCERE friends, if the truth were know. That might be why so many secular Jews seem to collect college degrees? Gentiles in academia seem to value a person's intelligence, without being threatened, in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Jul, 2015 09:47 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


Hey, don't let anything like facts get in your way, Oralloy.


The British are so good at repartee. The sun doesn't set on repartee.
 

Related Topics

Eye On Israel/Palestine - Discussion by IronLionZion
"Progressives(TM)" and Israel - Discussion by gungasnake
Israel's Reality - Discussion by Miller
Israel's Shame - Discussion by BigEgo
Abbas Embraces the Islamists - Discussion by Advocate
 
Copyright © 2022 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 08/16/2022 at 05:02:31