Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@McTag,

McTag wrote:

... so Israel should be allowed to continue with policies towards its neighbours which would have shamed the Nazis, and everyone else should mind their own business?

Israelis herding naked women into gas chambers? And, if you want to be intellectually honest, I believe few native Germans are ashamed of the Holocaust. They do admit it was "wrong." However, with "shame" goes "remorse." I never read, nor heard, of native Germans having "remorse."

It was a fait accompli, in my opinion!

P.S.: And, continuing to be intellectually honest, how many Americans have shame or remorse about the firebombing of Dresden? Try to use words that do reflect an even playing field, please.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

Israelis herding naked women into gas chambers?

No, they use tanks and 105 mm tank cannons to blow them and their children into little bitty pieces. Much more humaine. And in answer to an earlier question from you I sure wish their was a verbal fence between you and myself because almost all your posts offend me.

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@McTag,

No, I am saying the British created a lot of the mess that is the Middle East due to one sided politics, and now they are switching to the side they have been historically against for no better reason than to assuage guilt .

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@Foofie,

Good point . Where were all these do gooders when Israelis were threatened with another genocide because that is what the Arabs were saying .

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@Foofie,

Quote:

I know of instances of townspeople killing those that attempted to return to their prior home.

Some Jews survived the Holocaust, returned to Poland and were murdered by those good Catholics who had moved into their home and didn't want to give it up .

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@RABEL222,

Quote:

No, they use tanks and 105 mm tank cannons to blow them and their children into little bitty pieces

Yep . Palestinian rockets are more humane when they kill Israelis . What about those sweet Muslim terrorists from the freedom loving people of glorious Palestine who smashed those awful Israeli children's heads on rocks because those awful Israeli defence force personnel were catching up ? Clearly it those bloody Jews again . Only 2,000 years of persecuting them, when will they learn to just die out and save us wonderful people all this trouble killing them ?

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@Ionus,

Quote:

I would be more receptive to British opinion if :

2) They had of died alongside Israelis fighting for their very lives seeing it was a British protectorate

Chuzpah is never very far away, is it. Israeli activists had been as busy as they could be, killing British personnel and blowing up hotels.
Neither side wanted the peace to hold, and the Tommys were caught in the middle.

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@McTag,

Thats certainly true, but wasnt there a moral obligation to sort it out ? If they were Irish you would still be there, but they are hooknoses . No one offered to help the Israelis with man power, and there are many countries who should have, not just Britain, but none did . They sat back to see if the Arabs would win and start a second holocaust . Against the odds, the Israelis won but the chances were it would have been a massacre of Jews .

Now it has become fashionable to be anti-Jew/pro-Palestinian and I see a connection . Dont help, then when they manage to survive, support the enemy .

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@McTag,

I hasten to add that in those early days Israeli and Palestinian terrorists killed many innocents, including the poor bloody British soldier caught in the middle . The good news is those terrorists would later be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize....what a joke the Middle East is...

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@Foofie,

Quote:

Israelis herding naked women into gas chambers?

They haven't got round to their version of a final solution yet, but there are people in Israel who would willingly arrange it. We have heard from them.
Luckily we have the UN and international observers doing their best to ensure it does not happen.
Saying nothing of the living death they have arranged for the inhabitants of Gaza.

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@Ionus,

Quote:

...what a joke the Middle East is..

And the west illegally invading Sovereign nations is okay with you? Obama committing treason to invade Libya is fine too? Hmmm?

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@McTag,

Quote:

Luckily we have the UN and international observers doing their best to ensure it does not happen.

Talk about bias...dont you think the majority of Israelis might possibly per chance could maybe be against it too ? Lucky for UN observers...right ! Evil or Very Mad

..these clowns show up to watch massacres, they dont prevent anything and how are they doing that is this case ?

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@Builder,

Quote:

And the west illegally invading Sovereign nations is okay with you?

And those nations invading their neighbours and even killing their own citizens is okay with you ? Were you asleep when 9/11 happened ?

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

..these clowns show up to watch massacres, they dont prevent anything and how are they doing that is this case ?

You don't know why they aren't allowed to do anything else?
Well, it's all on the internet - just in case they didn't teach in the Australian Forces about the UN-peace corps.

Edit: an Australian Army Officer, Major General David, commanded the Force over a period of three years, Australia is still among the twelve countries contributing personal to the UN observer force.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

You don't know why they aren't allowed to do anything else?
Well, it's all on the internet - just in case they didn't teach in the Australian Forces about the UN-peace corps.

Why would you assume I dont know..does that make your argument sound better ? Have you served in a UN mission ? Or are Germans verbotten ?

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Why would you assume I dont know..does that make your argument sound better ?

I assume this because you mock about the UN-observers that they just observe.[/quote]

Ionus wrote:

Have you served in a UN mission ?

How is this related? Did you?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Read the original post I was replying to...he was saying that if not for the UN observers the Israelis would have put naked Palestinian women into gas chambers...complete and utter emotional rubbish .

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@Foofie,

The conversation appears to have touched some sensitive areas for you. I don't think that fact either requires or justifies the accusatory response you provided.

Popular judgment has turned sharply against Israel. Indeed the Litany of Political correctitude increasingly requires rote condemnations of Israel that both go beyond the facts and ignore equivalent or far worse things done by those who vow the destruction of that state. That's clearly unfair, but the fact is that people apply higher standards to those they know than to those they fear.

There is a cruel irony in the fact that the creation of a permanently Jewish state in response to centuries of oppression of Jews, has required the systematic oppression of non Jews in and around that state. However it is a fact. Decades of rationalizing this hypocrisy by Israelis haven't made this situation any better for them. Indeed the continuing polarization tends to worsen the situation for all involved. A consequence of this is that it becomes more and more dangerous for Israel to relax the very restrictions that fuel the resentments. Israel had far more options in 1967 than it has today. The decisions it made then in part led to the situation ot faces today. Now it is truly riding a tiger.

I believe

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Have you served in a UN mission ? Or are Germans verbotten ?

As said, I don't think this is related to the thread.
But since you asked ...
No, I haven't served in a UN mission.

The Federal Republic of Germany as well as the German Democratic Republic became UN-members in 1973 (UN-Resolution 335´).

The German armed forces ("Bundeswehr") were only a strict defence force (and that only after an amendment of the Basic Law in 1955.)

This situation could only be changed (and actually that had been done) after the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany
had been signed . Thus, the first German troops were part of the UN peace troops in 1993 ( UNOSOM II, twice, 1,700 and 1,300 soldiers).

I've served as a conscript in 1969 and 1970 (18 month), as a member of the "Alarm Operations Group (reserve)" (Alarmreserve, aka canon fodder) from 1971 until 1985 (another 18 month plus a couple of weeks additionally and voluntarily).

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

There is a cruel irony in the fact that the creation of a permanently Jewish state in response to centuries of oppression of Jews, has required the systematic oppression of non Jews in and around that state. However it is a fact. Decades of rationalizing this hypocrisy by Israelis haven't made this situation any better for them. Indeed the continuing polarization tends to worsen the situation for all involved. A consequence of this is that it becomes more and more dangerous for Israel to relax the very restrictions that fuel the resentments. Israel had far more options in 1967 than it has today. The decisions it made then in part led to the situation ot faces today. Now it is truly riding a tiger.

I believe

The "cruel irony" is that once Europe got their "Jewish problem" out of their backyard, they could pander to the Arab belief that they too deserve to have land that is Juden Frei. No peace agreement, in my opinion, will get Arabs to accept the existence of a Zionist State. The Arabs collectively have not been doing very well tolerating Christians either. However, when Christians leave Lebanon, Egypt, or Syria they wind up usually in a country that OFFICIALLY celebrates Christmas and Easter. No such luck with Jews if they got swamped by Arabs.

You are correct to say this thread has touched a sensitive area, since the type of anti-Semitism under the Nazis brought in the newest concept of "racial anti-Semitism." Meaning prior to the Nazis, relief from anti-Semitism was as close as the nearest church (aka, conversion). Hitler changed all that. And, it was exported to the middle east apparently.

So, the beginning of the problems in Israel started in 1933, not 1967.

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Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

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