Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@Frank Apisa,

Frank, be honest, it would never work moving the state of Israel in the US or anywhere else. That would almost be as unhuman as the way the State of Israel treats Palestinians now.

I don't pretend to know the answers that have eluded better minds than mine by far for all these many decades.

I do think it is past time to go around Israel in getting the Palestinians a viable state.

Bibi, Buji Both Want Israel to Keep It All

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@Frank Apisa,

This is how the Israeli propagandists work, a mixture of half truths, deception and downright lies. First of all they try to present the aggressor of the victim, then they talk about minor points of history as if pinning the blame on someone back in 1850 or whenever will make all the problems go away. Then they tell downright lies about Palestine's very existence in order to delegitimise the rights of the Palestinian people. When their lies are pointed out they then call everyone else a liar and start throwing mud.

It was a tactic successfully employed by the Nazis, and is now being used by their Neo Nazi counterparts. The only difference being that the targets of their hate are now the Arabs instead of the Jews.

And they all do it, Oralboy, Gob1, Gunga, Ionus, Foofie, all of them. Not one of them is prepared, or even capable, to engage in honest debate about what should be done right now, or even acknowledge the daily persecution and oppression of the Palestinian people.

It's like saying that because there was no America or Americas in the 1300s there can be no native Americans.

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@revelette2,

Short of war, there is nothing the rest of the world can do to influence Israel. The one-state scenario is the only possible outcome. The rest is literature.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Ionus wrote:
But the whole purpose was to create a Jewish state .

The original purpose was
the creation of Arab and Jewish States

The ultra-zio revolution is eating its own children, including the idea of a democratic Jewish state.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

Short of war, there is nothing the rest of the world can do to influence Israel.

This is true. The Zionist nation is so firmly established in American politics, the US congress the economy, that the Speaker of the House, John Boehner, is on his way to Israel to confer with the outcome of the Iranian negotiations with the US and its five other allies. Netanyahu, in effect, is now calling the shots in these negotiations. Israel is so confident of its power in America, that as soon as Obama is out of office, the chances are good the Republicans will have the US military going into the middle east getting rid of Iran and continue cleaning up the middle east for the Zionist state. To many onlookers, Israel is now the de facto 51st state of the US, but the Zionist nation's power in the US is greater than that of a mere state.

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@Olivier5,

According to the last UN envoy, a one state solution is a gloomy prospect as well.

Quote:

Over coffee and tea in the former Government House dating to the British mandate years, Serry observed, “The problem is if you know the horse you are riding — the two-state solution — is a dead horse, and you want to jump on another one, what is the other horse? It is a one-state reality. And we already see what that means for the Israelis and the Palestinians.”

Serry and many others have warned that a one-state solution threatens the democratic and Jewish DNA of the state of Israel — because it would mean that either Israel maintain the almost 50-year-old status quo that denies civil rights to Palestinians, who denounce the military occupation and its strictures as apartheid, or somehow absorb millions of Palestinians as fellow citizens, an idea that no Israeli leader has embraced.

In his final brief to the United Nations, Serry said he did not think talks between the two sides would be productive at present. Obama said last week that the prospect of Israeli-Palestinian peace “seems very dim.”

source

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@korkamann,

It seems to me (from a US perspective) Boehner is turning the Israel/Palestine problem into a partisan issue, whereas before it really wasn't.

From the Israel perspective, having Hillary would probably be just as good if not better than a republican as it removes the partisan issue and Hillary is already showing a difference in this issue which is why in the end, I may not vote at all.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Quote:

It seems to me (from a US perspective) Boehner is turning the Israel/Palestine problem into a partisan issue, whereas before it really wasn't.

Oh it's definitely become a partisan issue, make no doubt about that; it's one way to try and make Obama fail. Senator Lindsay Graham already *WARNED* president Obama that the congress might not lift sanctions if they did not like the outcome, even if he and the other allies agreed.

I have not followed closely Hillary's take on this, yet, but you bet your bottom dollars she might just lean towards the Republican side. I, too, am not that confident Hillary will do the right thing; however, she has to give me concrete reasons to not vote for her. She is rather hawkish and still might be trying to prove her bona fides that a female can be just as tough as a male.

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Withhold your vote if your conscience requires it.

Stalwart progressives may withhold their votes from Hillary...but stalwart conservatives will rise from a death bed to vote against her.

Make no mistake about it...a withheld vote is a vote for the Republican candidate.

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@korkamann,

I agree. In fact, seems to me Israel has more power over the US political system than the American people.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

Quote:

a one state solution is a gloomy prospect as well.

Nobody knows what the future holds in store, but it is true that a one-state solution is incompatible with a democratic and Jewish state. A bi-national state can be either democratic or Jewish but not both.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Make no mistake about it...a withheld vote is a vote for the Republican candidate.

At this early stage of the political presidential campaign 2016 election, there is no way in hell I would vote Republican; I think my arm would wither up and drop off if I were to pull the lever for the GOP. As I've often repeated, Hillary has her faults, but she is the only viable candidate for the Democrats AT THIS TIME. I will NEVER NOT vote....Too many people paid an extremely high price for the right to do so. I am acutely aware of the evil that resides among many in the rightwing Republican Party. If Cruz were to become president of the US then I know there is something very seriously wrong with the American system. The GOP governors have introduced voter repression; they will steal what they can like in 2000 when Florida stopped the voter hand count and the partisan SCOTUS gave the presidency to GWB, the dumbest president ever.

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@korkamann,

Quote:

If Cruz were to become president of the US then I know there is something very seriously wrong with the American system.

I don't even think the Republicans would give Cruz the top spot on the ticket...but he might actually be trying for (and they might give him) the second spot...where he would still be a heart beat away from the presidency.

There is no way the people of this country are sick enough to do that!

(Forgot who posted this earlier, but it captures my mood at the moment.)

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@Frank Apisa,

<I don't even think the Republicans would give Cruz the top spot on the ticket...but he might actually be trying for (and they might give him) the second spot...where he would still be a heartbeat away from the presidency.>

Oh, I did not literally mean Cruz could ever be president unless he died and were reborn again, which to me is an impossibility...I do not believe a man once dead, decomposing, will ever live again. Cruz is so thoroughly disliked, even by many in his own party, that when he enters the room most congressmen look down at their shoes.

Yesterday, it was said, he was willing to allow some undocumented immigrants to remain in the country....this means the as*hole thinks he has a shot at the presidency. Too little too late! Cruz has no credibility whatsoever. The man is one of the most toxic divisive figures I've ever read about. He might be able to influence an election, but I don't think he would ever be considered for the second spot as VP. He consistently polls at the bottom with those who will never ever be president because he is a know-it-all gasbag with a swelled head. Ted Cruz disturbs me so badly that even his accent rattles me and one a2k poster posted a picture of "grandpa" from the vampire Munster's series....what a bizarre likeness!

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

According to the last UN envoy, a one state solution is a gloomy prospect as well.

Quote:
Over coffee and tea in the former Government House dating to the British mandate years, Serry observed, “The problem is if you know the horse you are riding — the two-state solution — is a dead horse, and you want to jump on another one, what is the other horse? It is a one-state reality. And we already see what that means for the Israelis and the Palestinians.”

Serry and many others have warned that a one-state solution threatens the democratic and Jewish DNA of the state of Israel — because it would mean that either Israel maintain the almost 50-year-old status quo that denies civil rights to Palestinians, who denounce the military occupation and its strictures as apartheid, or somehow absorb millions of Palestinians as fellow citizens, an idea that no Israeli leader has embraced.

In his final brief to the United Nations, Serry said he did not think talks between the two sides would be productive at present. Obama said last week that the prospect of Israeli-Palestinian peace “seems very dim.”

source

So, Robert Serry thinks a one-state solution would be a problem because it would threaten the "democratic and Jewish DNA" of the state of Israel, and that we've already seen what that means for the Israelis and Palestinians?

What, exactly, have we seen? There is no, and has been no one-state solution to this conflict. All that we've seen is the discrimination and oppression of the Palestinian peoples by the Zionists in the name of maintaining this so called "Jewish DNA" of the state of Israel.

Apparently, Robert Serry is a Zionist who values ethnocentrism and ethnocentric ends over democracy, pluralism and egalitarianism.

And this guy has been the UN's special coordinator for the Middle East peace process since 2007!

How is it possible for the Palestinians to expect unbiased negotiations if even the outside negotiating parties are dyed in the wool Zionists?

A "Democratic" Jewish state is an oxymoron in regard to the state of Israel given the fact that roughly twenty percent of its population isn't Jewish. The Zionists merely make certain concessions to its non-Jewish population, like the right to vote, and give lip service to the idea of non-discrimination while in reality the state of Israel systematically discriminates against its non-Jewish population as reported in 2003 by its very own Or Commission. If it's truly "democratic" why insist that it be "the Jewish state" given its large non-Jewish population that--it's projected--will outnumber its Jewish population in a few generations?

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@InfraBlue,

Perhaps you didn't quite understand the point? Israel would never in a million years accept a one state solution (I don't think) precisely because then the non Jewish population would overwhelm the Jewish population unless of course the state would continue the status quo of denying non Jewish rights in which case, the Palestinians and Arabs in Israel would get nothing out of it.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Stalwart progressives may withhold their votes from Hillary...but stalwart conservatives will rise from a death bed to vote against her.

Discounting the propaganda that is surfacing now regarding Hillary Clinton, she will, for the most part, uphold the Democratic platform. The Republicans are digging and sowing all sorts of misinformation regarding Hillary and many impressionables will begin to have doubts...this is the GOP's design to try and stop Hilliary. No politician is perfect and many of them fall short, but in the present climate with respect to the rightwing Republicans, Hillary Clinton is particularly welcome and timely....she is the only tool we have at this time to fight the GOP and I think she can hold her own anywhere and with anyone.

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@revelette2,

Quote:

Israel would never in a million years accept a one state solution (I don't think) precisely because then the non Jewish population would overwhelm the Jewish population unless of course the state would continue the status quo of denying non Jewish rights in which case, the Palestinians and Arabs in Israel would get nothing out of it.

Did most Afrikaners want the collapse of their apartheid? No, but it happened anyway. And a few years before it happened, many thought it was there forever. Regardless of what Jewish Israelis want, the current apartheid state of Israel will collapse. Probably won't be as smooth as the SA transition.... There are no Mandelas in sight, for one thing, and Hamas is more extreme than the ANC ever was (though the ANC and Mandela too were called "terrorists").

1 Reply

@korkamann,

I haven't read all the rest of the posts yet, but I want to interject here that the american congress's billowing enthusiasm for Israel's present and apparently long lasting stances are out of sync, according to something I read yesterday: that most american jews are not for Bibi and his cohorts and their plans. I was pleased to read that and saved the link, but, which link. I'll be back with it, I hope.

In the meantime, this folly by the congress folk (so many christians, so little time) may possibly get overridden somehow. I hope. I don't blame all christians, and have doubts catholics among them are enthusiastic as a group, and american jews are apparently divided - people vary. Well, people vary, money wins, usually.

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@revelette2,

Israel is comprised of more than just the Zionists. In a few generations they will be outnumbered by the non-Zionist population there. The Zionists' ethnocentric idealism is untenable. I don't see any other viable option for the Zionists. Ethnic cleansing wouldn't be viable because it wouldn't be tolerated by even their very own lapdog, the US.

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Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

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