63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Thu 8 May, 2014 10:43 am
@Foofie,
Foofie, Your perception about the real world is non-existent if you believe only Jews are discriminated against. You need to get a handle on the realities of discrimination beyond your own culture.

Anybody can find incidence of discrimination on the internet against any group, culture, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, women, men, children, education, work group, most skills, or almost anything else that can be considered a special group.

In other words, quit picking on Germans. They're not your enemy.
Foofie
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 10:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Thanks.

Just to add another anecdotical story:
my niece wasn't allowed to stay in her class when she was as an exchange student in Indianapolis two years ago. She protested and finally could stay there. (As reason was given: because you are German.)
She said that it was a very casually taught compared which what she knew already from school here.

It really is sad what that girl saw in that excursion. But at least, she didn't mention that anyone laughed his/her ass off.


What was "very casually taught"?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 10:48 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Generally, I think that anti-Semitism is as high in Germany as it elsewhere in Europe. You don't see it so much - but it gets more published like elsewhere - due to our laws, it's more below the surface than openly said/written.

At least you don't have openly Nazi white supremacists like they have in the US. One of them tried to kill Jews in community centers recently.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 10:50 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Foofie, Your perception about the real world is non-existent if you believe only Jews are discriminated against. You need to get a handle on the realities of discrimination beyond your own culture.

Anybody can find incidence of discrimination on the internet against any group, culture, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, women, men, children, education, work group, most skills, or almost anything else that can be considered a special group.

In other words, quit picking on Germans. They're not your enemy.


I am not picking on anyone. If anyone laughs at the photos in a Holocaust museum it just means that in their eyes Jews deserve a fall from a favored position. That elicites Schadenfreude. The Schadenfreude proves that Jews are still a pariah group, since the Schadenfreude is driven by envy, and the Schadenfreude also ameliorates the feeling that one might be inferior to the supposed talents of some group, since it reflects that one would rather be without any supposed talents, than be one of the pariah group. It is a psychological face saving defense mechanism (unconscious) to ameliorate the feelings that one might be truly inferior.

I am not picking on Germans, but I do understand that too much water went under the bridge, so to speak, from WWII, and they can find friends elsewhere. I also feel that way about many Catholics that buddy up to me, since I always wonder whether they would be so friendly before Pope John XXlll? In other words, Jews, like Asians, have been an outgroup for too long to foolishly think that everyone in a group, that was once hostile, had an epiphany and became a SINCERE friend. The operant word is "sincere"!
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 8 May, 2014 10:52 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
Maybe, maybe not. Don't sneeze at the fecundity of the ultra Othodox.

Yes, there's that too. But those are religious fanatics. You'd be better of with the Muslims.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 10:56 am
@Advocate,
Thanks.

Just to add another anecdotical story:
my niece wasn't allowed to stay in her class when she was as an exchange student in Indianapolis two years ago. She protested and finally could stay there. (As reason was given: because you are German.)
She said that it was a very casually taught compared which what she knew already from school here.

It really is sad what that girl saw in that excursion. But at least, she didn't mention that anyone laughed his/her ass off. And might be that the pupils couldn't handle the situation - not excusing them, especially not their teacher.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 10:57 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Maybe, maybe not. Don't sneeze at the fecundity of the ultra Othodox.

Yes, there's that too. But those are religious fanatics. You'd be better of with the Muslims.


"Better be"? I am only with Americans. Preferably with Protestants.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 10:57 am
@Advocate,
Advocate, how would you react if some people tried to invade and colonize your own country? Would you accept them with open arms? Is anyone allowed to invade and colonize Israel?

The Palestinians are just like any other people. They are entitled to defend themselves.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 10:59 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
I am only with Americans. Preferably with Protestants.

Not referral with fellow Jews?

Why the preference for protestants, may I ask?
Foofie
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 11:00 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You need to get a handle on the realities of discrimination beyond your own culture.



Why? There are very few other groups I care about. Americans, Protestants, Jews. That's it. You my dear friend can be a citizen of the world. At some point, you can be a citizen of eternity. So, all your caring about the world will be for naught.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 11:03 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
What was "very casually taught"?
The Nazi period. And here, we talk more and deeper about the Holocaust than just two hours.
Foofie
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 11:13 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foofie wrote:
What was "very casually taught"?
The Nazi period. And here, we talk more and deeper about the Holocaust than just two hours.


Perhaps, the school did not want to make the girl uneasy? I don't mention the Holocaust to non-Jewish acquaintances. It is not a subject for non-Jewish ears, if one wants to have a pleasant social occasion.

However, the fact that the girl did protest, and remained, could be considered very "German," perhaps even very "Jewish." You see, both groups are considered arrogant by the world's genteel standards. Now that is humorous, in my opinion.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 11:19 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I am only with Americans. Preferably with Protestants.

Not referral with fellow Jews?

Why the preference for protestants, may I ask?

That should read: "Not preference for fellow Jews?"
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 11:20 am
@Foofie,
Foofie, On an even lighter side, many of us Asians find the Chinese to be equal to Jews on arrogance.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 11:41 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Perhaps, the school did not want to make the girl uneasy?
I suppose so.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 11:52 am
@Advocate,
Quote:
Aya Zarfati, a 32-year-old Israeli woman, has been living in Germany for the past few years as she studies for her master’s degree. She works as a guide at three sites that are related to the Holocaust, each in its own way: the Jewish Museum in Berlin, a memorial site at the Sachsenhausen concentration camp and the House of the Wannsee Conference, where German senior officials met in 1942 to discuss the implementation of the Final Solution. Zarfati has guided many pupils there. “They come with a great deal of knowledge,” she says. “Holocaust studies in Germany are just as thorough as they are in Israel, if not more so. For example, here you will never encounter a German class that does not know about Kristallnacht. Almost every school in Germany where I have worked has a project related to the Holocaust. The topic of the Holocaust appears in almost all areas of study.”
Source: Haaretz, April 4, 2014: Teaching the Holocaust in Germany
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 12:06 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Advocate, how would you react if some people tried to invade and colonize your own country? Would you accept them with open arms? Is anyone allowed to invade and colonize Israel?

The Palestinians are just like any other people. They are entitled to defend themselves.


I think you need to read some history. Israel is the ancestral home of the Jews, who have prayed to return there over the centuries. When they gained their country, the Pals continued to attack the nascent Israel, even though Israelis essentially never set foot in the WB and Gaza until the '67 war. Moreover, the Pals desecrated the Western Wall area and other Jewish holy sites in the WB, while Israel stayed within the '48 borders. Thus, it is fair to say that the Pals earned the Jewish settlements in the WB.
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Thu 8 May, 2014 12:12 pm
@Advocate,
"Ancestral home" is an oxymoron when it comes to property ownership. There are ethical and legal issues about taking another people's property without paying for it. It must be a legal transaction in accordance with international laws.

Jews are not allowed to create their own laws to steal other people's property based on the idea of "ancestral home."
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Thu 8 May, 2014 12:34 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
I think you need to read some history. Israel is the ancestral home of the Jews, who have prayed to return there over the centuries.
The idea of Israel as "the national home of the Jewish people" was at the center of modern Zionism, which emerged in the late 19th century ... but since it first was said in German, it wasn't "Israel" but 'Palestine': Rabbi Hirsch Kalischer didn't want to wait for the Messiah to lead the Jews to Palestine but founded the "Zentralkomitee für die jüdische Kolonisation in Palästina" in 1863 ...
Who, did you say, needs to read history?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 8 May, 2014 12:46 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Also from Wiki.
Quote:
Israeli Declaration of Independence
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Purpose Declare a Jewish state in Mandatory Palestine shortly before the expiration of the British Mandate.[1]
The Israeli Declaration of Independence (Hebrew: הכרזת העצמאות‎, Hakhrazat HaAtzma'ut or Hebrew: מגילת העצמאות‎ Megilat HaAtzma'ut), was made on 14 May 1948 (5 Iyar 5708), the British Mandate terminating soon afterwards at midnight Palestine time.[2] David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization[3][4] and the chairman of the Jewish Agency for Palestine,[5] declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel.[6]

The event is celebrated annually in Israel with a national holiday Yom Ha'atzmaut (Hebrew: יום העצמאות‎, lit. Independence Day) on 5 Iyar of every year according to the Hebrew calendar.
0 Replies
 
 

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