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Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Thu 17 Apr, 2014 09:13 pm
@Olivier5,
The 'REGRET' started many decades ago, when the US continued to support Israel within the international community and the UN- all while the Zionists continued to expand their settlements.

Most of the US' presidents, senators and house members owe their souls to the devil.

It's all show and no cattle.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Thu 17 Apr, 2014 10:11 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Not the Same Old, Same Old
April 15, 2014
Thomas L. Friedman
[...] The truth is Kerry's mission is less an act of strategy and more an act of deep friendship. It is America trying to save Israel from trends that will inevitably undermine it as a Jewish and democratic state.

Nonsense. Once peace talks collapse, all that will be necessary will be to forcibly transport all the Palestinians to the Gaza Strip.


Quote:
But Kerry is the last of an old guard. Those in the Obama administration who think he is on a suicide mission reflect the new U.S. attitude toward the region. And those in Israel who denounce him as a nuisance reflect the new Israel.
Kerry, in my view, is doing the Lord's work. But the weight of time and all the changes it has wrought on the ground may just be too heavy for such an act of friendship.

As I recall, when Mr. Kerry managed the miracle of bringing us closer to peace than we'd been in years, the only people here who expressed any joy were me and JTT.

Most of the "usual suspects" responded to the news of imminent peace by spewing horrendous lies about Israel until prospects for a successful agreement had dimmed.

(To your credit, you were not among those who helped damage Mr. Kerry's efforts.)


Quote:
If he folds his tent, though, Israelis and Palestinians will deeply regret it, and soon.

What's to regret? Pack all the Palestinian scum up in buses and drive them all to the Gaza Strip where they belong.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 28 Apr, 2014 03:04 am
The US Secretary of State John Kerry thinks at least that Israel risks becoming “an apartheid state”.

During his talk, a recording of which was procured by The Daily Beast, Kerry also suggested that a change in the leadership of either Israel or the Palestinians could make a breakthrough more feasable. He also reiterated his conviction that both sides share the blame for the negotiations' dead end.

And Haaretz reporta
Quote:
Kerry harshly criticized Israel for plans to build 14 thousand new housing units in the settlements advanced during the past nine months of negotiations.

Kerry also said that at some point he might unveil his own peace proposal, and tell both sides to either “take it or leave it.”

U.S. State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said in response to the tape that Kerry was simply expressing his position, which is shared by many others, and that the two-state solution is the only way Israel could remain a Jewish state that lives in peace with the Palestinians. She added that similar positions have been expressed by Israeli leaders such as Ehud Barak, Ehud Olmert and Tzipi Livni.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 28 Apr, 2014 03:09 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Again from Haaretz
Quote:
Kerry told the simple truth

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps9ca47c29.jpg

The Israeli public deserves a government that clearly admits it has no desire for a peace agreement.

One can only regret the American administration’s attempts, coated with praise for Benjamin Netanyahu and Israel’s government, to clarify and modify Secretary of State John Kerry’s statement to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Tuesday.

Describing the events leading to the collapse of the negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians, Kerry said Israel had not released prisoners as it had pledged to do as part of the agreement to resume the talks, and had then approved tenders for constructing 700 new settlement units in East Jerusalem (which followed other huge tenders for accelerated construction in the settlements).
[...]
His words hewed to the simple truth. Throughout the negotiations, Prime Minister Netanyahu has been busy spreading fog around his intentions and inventing spin tactics aimed at avoiding any significant decision. Housing Minister Uri Ariel and Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon have done everything they could to sabotage the talks. Finance Minister Yair Lapid made do with lip service to the peace process, while Justice Minister Tzipi Livni served as a fig leaf trying to cover Israel’s insincerity.

So instead of automatically blaming the Palestinians for the negotiations’ failure, they should ask themselves what their own part was in the foot-dragging and obstructionism in the talks, and how they helped create he pretense that Israel and the Palestinians are two state entities with equal military and economic status.

The Israeli public deserves a government that is candid with it and admits clearly that it has no desire for a peace agreement, and that its main motivation is to continue developing the West Bank settlements. In other words, it wants to continue the occupation and separate the Palestinians from their lands.

Once the government admits that, Israelis will be able to choose which kind of state they want to live in and which vision of a state they want to vote for – that of a democratic state that respects the rule of law and human rights and sees international relations as a vital asset, or of a messianic, separatist state with features of an apartheid regime, in which a privileged Jewish population rules over millions of Palestinians.

These are Israel’s options. Any other portrayal of them is a false one.
McTag
 
  2  
Mon 28 Apr, 2014 03:47 am
@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:
The Israeli public deserves a government that is candid with it and admits clearly that it has no desire for a peace agreement, and that its main motivation is to continue developing the West Bank settlements. In other words, it wants to continue the occupation and separate the Palestinians from their lands.

Once the government admits that, Israelis will be able to choose which kind of state they want to live in and which vision of a state they want to vote for – that of a democratic state that respects the rule of law and human rights and sees international relations as a vital asset, or of a messianic, separatist state with features of an apartheid regime, in which a privileged Jewish population rules over millions of Palestinians.


That's good. Plain talking at last.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 28 Apr, 2014 07:47 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The US Secretary of State John Kerry thinks at least that Israel risks becoming “an apartheid state”.

Daily Beast is a hack outfit with a history of lying.

That said, Israel is at little risk. If they draw their borders where they are building the Security Fence, that will put most Palestinians outside Israel. No Apartheid.

If they remove the Palestinians from the West Bank and transport them all to the Gaza Strip, also no Apartheid.

I recommend removing the Palestinians. Letting them stay in the West Bank is a bad idea. But either way there is no Apartheid.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 28 Apr, 2014 07:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The Israeli public deserves a government that clearly admits it has no desire for a peace agreement.

Regardless of whether or not the current Israeli government desires a peace agreement, the Israeli people deserve to have it acknowledged that they've elected governments before who did everything they could to achieve a peace agreement, only to have the whole thing torpedoed by huge Palestinian massacres of innocent Israelis.

I don't know whether it is true or not that the current Israeli government does not wish to negotiate, but there is a very good reason why they are in power right now instead of a government that might be more favorable to negotiation.


Quote:
One can only regret the American administration’s attempts, coated with praise for Benjamin Netanyahu and Israel’s government, to clarify and modify Secretary of State John Kerry’s statement to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Tuesday.

Describing the events leading to the collapse of the negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians, Kerry said Israel had not released prisoners as it had pledged to do as part of the agreement to resume the talks,

Actually, Israel released prisoners over and over throughout the talks. It was only the very last round of releases that they held back on. And they held back on that last round because the Palestinians were refusing to compromise at the negotiating table.


Quote:
Once the government admits that, Israelis will be able to choose which kind of state they want to live in and which vision of a state they want to vote for – that of a democratic state that respects the rule of law and human rights and sees international relations as a vital asset, or of a messianic, separatist state with features of an apartheid regime, in which a privileged Jewish population rules over millions of Palestinians.

These are Israel’s options. Any other portrayal of them is a false one.

Nonsense. If the Palestinians remain outside Israeli borders, there will be no Apartheid.

This can happen by making the Security Fence Israel's border. And it can happen by gathering up the West Bank Palestinians and transporting them all to Gaza.

I favor the latter. Outright removing the Palestinians from the West Bank will result in much better security. But either way will result in no Apartheid.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 28 Apr, 2014 08:28 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Daily Beast is a hack outfit with a history of lying.
That might be so or be just your opinion. But the reported fact has been confirmed.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 28 Apr, 2014 08:31 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Actually, Israel released prisoners over and over throughout the talks.
Actually that wasn't a topic on the above mentioned quote.

oralloy wrote:
It was only the very last round of releases that they held back on.
Indeed, this is what the quote referred to (and what is clearly to be noticed in the original quoted Haaretz-report).
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Mon 28 Apr, 2014 09:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
"risks becoming?" He's got to be kidding! He's dumber than a fence post.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 2 May, 2014 02:06 pm
Netanyahu’s ‘Jewish state’ law angers Arab Israelis
Quote:
Leaders of Israel’s Arab minority have reacted with fury to plans by the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to spearhead legislation defining Israel as “the nation state of the Jewish people”.

Arab Israelis say the law will pave the way for discrimination against them to be entrenched in law.

Liberal Israeli Jews are also warning that Mr Netanyahu’s announcement that his government intends to “provide a constitutional anchor for Israel’s status as the nation state of the Jewish people” is “undemocratic”.
Foofie
 
  1  
Fri 2 May, 2014 03:23 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Netanyahu’s ‘Jewish state’ law angers Arab Israelis
Quote:
Leaders of Israel’s Arab minority have reacted with fury to plans by the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to spearhead legislation defining Israel as “the nation state of the Jewish people”.

Arab Israelis say the law will pave the way for discrimination against them to be entrenched in law.

Liberal Israeli Jews are also warning that Mr Netanyahu’s announcement that his government intends to “provide a constitutional anchor for Israel’s status as the nation state of the Jewish people” is “undemocratic”.



The Queen is the spiritual head of the Anglican Church. Non-Anglicans live in the UK and have all the rights of Anglican citizens. In my opinion you might be comparing apples to oranges, by not including those nations that have a veritable national church.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 2 May, 2014 03:36 pm
@Foofie,
You wrote,
Quote:
In my opinion you might be comparing apples to oranges, by not including those nations that have a veritable national church.


What countries have a "veritable national church?" What other country's citizens dominate in their religion, politics, and culture?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 2 May, 2014 03:47 pm
@Foofie,
The UK is not defined as an Anglican country, though...
Advocate
 
  1  
Fri 2 May, 2014 05:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
How would you describe the WB and Gaza relative to religion, since they forbid any Jew from settling there.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 2 May, 2014 06:27 pm
@Olivier5,
True. As I vaguely recall, common law is what influences the UK (and the US), and not the primary religion of the country.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 2 May, 2014 07:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I think the UK constitution is based on tradition, not a formal constitution. Israel doesn't have a constitution either, but have some 'basic laws'. This would be a new one I suppose.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 2 May, 2014 09:13 pm
@Olivier5,
When I studied business law - about two lifetimes ago, I remember we had to study about how US laws originated. That's where I got the idea about common law in the UK.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 2 May, 2014 10:55 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
The Queen is the spiritual head of the Anglican Church. Non-Anglicans live in the UK and have all the rights of Anglican citizens. In my opinion you might be comparing apples to oranges, by not including those nations that have a veritable national church.
Indeed, Elisabeth II is "'Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England'" and holds this ceremonial authority over the Church of England. And the Prime Minister only recently said, that the UK is a Christian country.

The Independent wrote/printed a lot about it, not only this article.
But since that isn't the topic of this thread, I didn't post that debate here.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 3 May, 2014 01:37 am
@Advocate,
Rubbish, there are settlements popping up all over the West Bank. Palestinians are being forced out of their homes to make way for Israelis.
0 Replies
 
 

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