63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Mon 10 Mar, 2014 05:43 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Your statements are motivated by your desire to not see the facts presented on just what an apartheid state Israel is, A.

Come on, we could do without the anti-Semitism.
oralloy
 
  0  
Mon 10 Mar, 2014 05:44 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Advocate wrote:
The organization thinks it is terrible that Israel defends its borders and people. The USA has such organizations, which are totally unrealistic about internal and external threats to the country.
[...]
The fact that Israel has such organizations is a tribute to Israel's openness and freedom.

So such organisations in the USA are "totally unrealistic about internal and external threats to the country", but in Israel they are "a tribute to Israel's openness and freedom".
Amazing! I really didn't consider things like that.

Such organizations are both, in both places.

That the US tolerates groups that spew hideous lies about us is indeed a tribute to our Freedom and Democracy.

But let's not give any of those hideous lies credence just because our Freedom of Speech allows them to be openly expressed.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Mon 10 Mar, 2014 05:44 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Actually, this was noticed in Israel as well: AIPAC, the Kremlin of U.S. Jewry
Quote:

If AIPAC wants to show true friendship, it should stop cheering long and start whispering in the PM's ear that people in the U.S. are fed up with Israel.

That is the phenomenon known as the Self Hating Jew.

I don't know why some Jews are compelled to spout outrageous anti-Semitism, but the best solution seems to be to not give their anti-Semitism any credence.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 10 Mar, 2014 05:55 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
That is the phenomenon known as the Self Hating Jew.

I don't know why some Jews are compelled to spout outrageous anti-Semitism, but the best solution seems to be to not give their anti-Semitism any credence.
Something like closing down newspapers?
oralloy
 
  0  
Mon 10 Mar, 2014 06:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Something like closing down newspapers?

No. That would violate Free Speech.

When people spout hateful lies, the thing to do is refuse to believe the lies.

Better yet: speak up and challenge the lies as untrue.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Mon 10 Mar, 2014 02:41 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:


Quote:
If AIPAC wants to show true friendship... start whispering in the PM's ear that people in the U.S. are fed up with Israel.



This post was then followed by a discussion by one poster on the topic of the self-hating Jew". I don't know any"'self-hating Jews". I've know many Jews, who over time did change their names ( in the US ) and did so for a variety of reasons...but never would I have said that they did so, because they were "self-hating".

The quote above, stated that people in the US are fed up with Israel. Who are these people? Are they Jewish? Are they Christians? Who are they?

I don't know any American Jews who are fed up with Israel. I do know there are many, many American Jews who donate millions of $$ to Israel each year and publicly (in printed publications, which I regularly read ) exhibit their dollar amounts, their names and their home towns. To me, these donors are proud to be Jewish and are proud of Israel.

( I'll add here, that I have not read this whole thread, which seems to be nonending ).

oralloy
 
  -1  
Mon 10 Mar, 2014 10:08 pm
@Miller,
Miller wrote:
This post was then followed by a discussion by one poster on the topic of the self-hating Jew".

That would be me. [waves hand]


Miller wrote:
I don't know any"'self-hating Jews".

Lucky you. They are just as tiresome as any other form of anti-Semite.


Miller wrote:
I've know many Jews, who over time did change their names ( in the US ) and did so for a variety of reasons...but never would I have said that they did so, because they were "self-hating".

I'm not sure why anyone would change their name unless there was a marriage or divorce involved.

But indeed, "whether someone changes their name" and "whether they spout vile anti-Semitism" would likely not be related.


Miller wrote:
The quote above, stated that people in the US are fed up with Israel. Who are these people? Are they Jewish? Are they Christians? Who are they?

They are anti-Semites.

And as anti-Semites are wont to do, they claim to speak for everyone when they spout their hatred and intolerance.


Miller wrote:
I don't know any American Jews who are fed up with Israel.

Yes. I saw above where you said you had not experienced the misfortune of knowing such a person.

Hopefully your lucky streak will continue. Anti-Semites are tiresome to put up with, the way they always go on and on with their lies and endless hatred.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  0  
Tue 11 Mar, 2014 02:56 pm
I think that there are all types of people in the USA who are down on Israel.

I think this is because they don't know the terrific bang-for-the-buck the USA gets for the small amount given or loaned to Israel. Israel is the only democracy in the ME. It provides valuable intell, high-tech equipment, meds, and a potential base of operations for the USA. It stands ready to help the USA when possible. How many other countries provide these things?
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Tue 11 Mar, 2014 04:20 pm
Palestine is a democracy, Lebanon is a democracy. Israel is a pseudo democracy because not all of the people controlled by Israel are allowed to vote for the government that makes all the decisions.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  0  
Tue 11 Mar, 2014 05:10 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Actually, this was noticed in Israel as well: AIPAC, the Kremlin of U.S. Jewry

If AIPAC wants to show true friendship, it should stop cheering long and start whispering in the PM's ear that people in the U.S. are fed up with Israel.


Quote:
Izzythepush wrote:

Palestine is a democracy, Lebanon is a democracy. Israel is a pseudo democracy because not all of the people controlled by Israel are allowed to vote for the government that makes all the decisions.


Agreed, Israel is a *pseudo democracy.* There will never be an Israeli Arab PM of Israel. A democracy affords all its people the ability to share in the same gifts, a democracy, i.e., a state of society, characterized by formal *equality of rights and privileges* to all its citizens regardless of varying religious affiliation. One of the most widely held and subversive misconception about the U.S.-Israeli relationship is that the two countries share ideals, democratic structure and respect for human rights. This is a deception in its purest form.

Israel practices as state policy a number of measures that are illegal in the United states and other western countries. These include assassination, kidnapping, expulsion, detention without charges or trial, land confiscation, and collective punishment.....not to mention Israel's long-standing practice of espionage against the United states (Jonathan Pollard as just *one* example), its principal benefactor. Moreover, Israel is the only country that officially sanctions torture.

As far as Israel being the only country in the middle east who is a friend to the US, well, I disagree. Many Arab countries would fall all over themselves to be friendly with the US but Israel prevents this with is pernicious propaganda against all Arabs, creating the impression in the US they are all mass murderers. I must admit Israel tries its damn best to be of service to the US but truth be known, Israel has been more of an impediment to the US and its interests, making America a target, an enemy of all Israel's enemies.

Advocate, your stunning lack of dishonesty re the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is baffling. I'm beginning to believe you have no moral compass the way you prevaricate. You are not a stupid individual by any means....and are quite above average in intelligence, yet you seem to blame everything on the Arabs when it was modern Israel who chased the Palestinians out of their homes in 1948, and have waged war on these people ever since. When the UN asks to come into the West Bank and Gaza to inspect, the US backs up Israel, refusing to allow the world in to see for themselves the tragedy visited on the Palestinians who do not have an army.


And the quote is correct in that "many American citizens are fed up with Israel's" refusal to abide by international law. Stealing all the land and claiming Jerusalem to the Zionist nation. Jerusalem is supposed to be an OPEN City for ALL RELIGIONS.


Academic boycotts of Israel
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Proposals for academic boycotts of Israel have been made by academics and organisations in Palestine,[1] the United States,[2] the United Kingdom,[3] and other countries to boycott Israeli universities and academics. The goal of proposed academic boycotts is to isolate Israel in order to force a change in Israel's policies towards the Palestinians which proponents state to be discriminatory and oppressive, including oppressive to the academic freedom of Palestinians.[4]
Moment-in-Time
 
  0  
Tue 11 Mar, 2014 06:08 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR

WRONG: Advocate, your stunning lack of dishonesty re the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is baffling.

CORRECTION: Should read your stunning lack of "HONESTY and INTEGRITY" with respect to the I/P conflict is baffling.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Tue 11 Mar, 2014 09:03 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
I think you know better that the nonsense in your post.

The Pal Israelis have equal rights in Israel. The Pal noncitizens have no rights in Israel, just as the Canadians in Canada have no rights in the USA.

Israel allows everyone, who is not a criminal, to visit Jerusalem. Even Pals may visit. Jewish Israelis (without an armed guard) are not allowed to visit the WB and Gaza. Those who try to visit would be promptly murdered.

Israel would like to live in peace with a Pal state. However, the Pals will not allow this.

I could elaborate at length on the above, but I don't have the time that you seem to have.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Wed 12 Mar, 2014 10:39 am
Israel's latest atrocity, note that the person in question is a Judge, Israel's explanation is so ludicrous as to be absurd.

Quote:
Israel has expressed regret over the death of a Jordanian judge, who was shot by Israeli soldiers at the Allenby Bridge border crossing on Monday.

It has also agreed to a request to set up a joint investigation with Jordan.

The Israeli military says Raed Zaytar, who was of Palestinian origin, tried to grab a soldier's rifle and strangle him after crossing into the West Bank.

But the incident was condemned by the Palestinian Authority and Jordan's government, which called it "hideous".

Investigation

On Tuesday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office issued a statement saying: "Israel regrets the death of Judge Raed Zaytar... and expresses its sympathies to the people and government of Jordan."

"Israel has already shared with Jordan the results of its preliminary investigation of the incident," it added. "Israel has also agreed to a Jordanian request to establish a joint Israeli-Jordanian team to complete the investigation."

Jordan's Prime Minister Abdullah Ensour meanwhile told parliament that Israel was "completely responsible" for Mr Zaytar's death.

"Jordan has pressured Israel to formally apologise. Jordan is now part of the probe into the shooting," he said.

MPs dismissed the Israeli expression of regret and the Speaker, Attef al-Tarwaneh, said the shooting had violated Jordan's 1994 peace treaty with Israel.
Lawyers and judges staged a protest outside the Palace of Justice in Amman to demand the deportation of Israeli diplomats.

The Palestinian Authority has also strongly condemned the shooting and demanded the formation of an international investigative committee.

Originally from the northern West Bank town of Nablus, Mr Zaytar had been working as a magistrate in Jordan since 2009.

Hundreds of Palestinians turned out for his funeral on Tuesday in Nablus. Palestinian Authority security personnel escorted his body in a 20-vehicle military procession.

Mr Zaytar was on board a bus that transports people across the Allenby Bridge crossing with about 50 others on Monday morning when it was stopped by Israeli soldiers at a checkpoint.

Describing Mr Zaytar as a "terrorist", the Israeli military said that after getting off the bus he "ran towards the soldiers yelling 'Allahu akbar', attempting to seize their weapons".

"The soldiers felt an immediate threat to their lives and fired toward his lower extremities. The suspect then began to strangle a soldier and the force resorted to firing again," it added.

On Tuesday evening, the Palestinian news agency Maan cited a witness as saying the incident began when Mr Zaytar was pushed over by the soldier as he attempted to board the bus at the checkpoint.

Mr Zaytar got up and pushed the soldier, who then opened fire, the report said. The first shot missed, but the second hit him in the chest, it added.

The witness said the judge lay on the road bleeding for about half an hour before an Israeli ambulance arrived and medics tried to revive him.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-26533992
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 12 Mar, 2014 11:00 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Not much more than 24 hours after the incident, the office of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu issued a formal expression of sorrow, sent condolences to the Jordanian people and government, submitted a report from the initial investigation to the Jordanians and even announced the establishment of a binational team to look into the incident. Israel has not taken such steps following the killing of any unarmed Palestinian in recent years.

Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 01:31 pm
Quote:
In their latest redrawing of the map of the West Bank at the expense of Palestinians, Israeli occupation authorities have declared about 250 acres of territory south of Bethlehem to be land belonging to the state, paving the way for it to be used to expand three Israeli settlements.
[...]
It is the largest declaration of state lands in the West Bank since 2004, and draws on 19th-century Ottoman Turkish law [sic!] to take over Palestinian land found to have been uncultivated for a decade.
[...]
The move came as three Israeli settler families took up occupancy of building with 20 apartments in the West Bank city of Hebron after Israel’s supreme court last month ruled they had purchased the property legally. Palestinians and Israeli doves consider this to be the equivalent of a new settlement in Hebron.

Full report @ The Independent: Israel stakes claim on West Bank land for settlements


Quote:
Three Jewish families returned on Sunday to a disputed building in Hebron from which they had been evicted more than five years ago.

Permission for the return was given by Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon after the Supreme Court ruled last month that the four-storey building, known as the House of Contention, had been legally purchased by the settlers.

The families were accompanied by a large and festive crowd as they returned to the building. The rabbi of Hebron Dov Lior said that "the purchase of a house in the Land of Israel is, for the people of Israel, the return of the city of the fathers to her sons – and so it should be throughout the breadth of our land.

"Real peace will be when the nations of the world recognize the exclusive right of the Jewish people to this land. Every nation has its piece of land on the earth and we are willing to assist them in returning to their place of origin."
Full report @ Haaretz: Settlers return to disputed Hebron building
JTT
 
  1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 01:44 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:

"The soldiers felt an immediate threat to their lives and fired toward his lower extremities. The suspect then began to strangle a soldier and the force resorted to firing again," it added.


He was strangling a soldier and yet he was shot in the chest. How does that happen?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 13 Apr, 2014 10:23 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
In their latest redrawing of the map of the West Bank at the expense of Palestinians, Israeli occupation authorities have declared about 250 acres of territory south of Bethlehem to be land belonging to the state, paving the way for it to be used to expand three Israeli settlements.
[...]
It is the largest declaration of state lands in the West Bank since 2004, and draws on 19th-century Ottoman Turkish law [sic!] to take over Palestinian land found to have been uncultivated for a decade.

Once this last attempt at a peace process collapses, that'll be the end of a two-state solution based on 1967 borders. It'll be time to start thinking about the most effective way to bus all the Palestinians out of the West Bank once and for all.

Once the Palestinians have all been delivered to their new home in Gaza, the entire West Bank will then belong to Israel. They'll be able to settle it as they please.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 08:20 am
"Progressive liberal" idealogues might not accept this view:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304640104579487444112949138?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304640104579487444112949138.html
JTT
 
  2  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 08:37 am
@oralloy,
"It is like what was done [by the Nazis] to us during the Shoa [the Judeocide of WW II]."

"What we are doing in the territories [occupied since 1967] has aroused them [the Palestinians]. I understand them. If somebody had done the same things to us, we would have reacted exactly like them."

Israeli national singer Yafa Yarkoni, comparing the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) with the Nazis, April 2002
JTT
 
  1  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 08:28 pm
"...The charge that criticism of Israel is implicitly anti-Semitic -- is regarded in Israel and the United States as Israel's trump card. If it has been played more insistently and aggressively in recent years, that is because it is now the only card left. The habit of tarring any foreign criticism with the brush of anti-Semitism is deeply ingrained in Israeli political instincts: Ariel Sharon used it with characteristic excess but he was only the latest in a long line of Israeli leaders to exploit the claim. David Ben-Gurion and Golda Meir did no different. But Jews outside of Israel pay a high price for this tactic. Not only does it inhibit their own criticisms of Israel for fear of appearing to associate with bad company, but it encourages others to look upon Jews everywhere as de facto collaborators in Israel's misbehavior. When Israel breaks international law in the occupied territories, when Israel publicly humiliates the subject populations whose land it has seized -- but then responds to its critics with loud cries of "anti-Semitism" -- it is in effect saying that these acts are not Israeli acts, they are Jewish acts: The occupation is not an Israeli occupation, it is a Jewish occupation, and if you don't like these things it is because you don't like Jews. In many parts of the world this is in danger of becoming a self-fulfilling assertion: Israel's reckless behavior and insistent identification of all criticism with anti-Semitism is now the leading source of anti-Jewish sentiment in Western Europe and much of Asia..."

excerpted from the article
"The Country that Wouldn't Grow Up"
by Tony Judt
Ha'aretz, www.haaretz.com, 5/5/06
 

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