Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@Advocate,

Advocat wrote:

This is a nothing compared to what Nazi Germany did. The Nazis murdered every black person in the country.

Nazi Germany just loved blacks.

You really do have **** for brains, contradicting yourself on the same page.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

Actually, Advocate's source sums it up very well (though there are a couple more explicit sources and testimonies online).
But it seems, he didn't read what he linked ...

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Kerry says Israeli, Palestinian deal possible by end of April
Reuters
3 hours ago

I believe Kerry is naive to a fault. This has been on-going for five decades.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

Advocat wrote:
This is a nothing compared to what Nazi Germany did. The Nazis murdered every black person in the country.

Nazi Germany just loved blacks.

Izzythepush wrote:

Quote:

You really do have **** for brains, contradicting yourself on the same page.

Actually, I believe Advocate was being facetious. He is of course very wrong regarding *every* black in Germany being killed....Some were sent to concentration camps wjile some survived, some were killed. As Walter Hinteler pointed out, "there were not that many Blacks in Germany that would signal them a priority." In prewar central Europe, the largest Jewish community was in Germany, with about 500,000 members (0.75% of the total German population).

There was sometime ago an excellent documentary (PBS), including German film footage from the Third Reich period and interviews with Blacks who lived there.

'The black community in Berlin worked mainly in the entertainment industry, as dancers and musicians in Berlin's vibrant nightclub scene.To a certain extent, they were tolerated by the Nazi regime; there was no official persecution in terms of round ups and deportations to concentration or death camps, although, without official German citizenship,blacks in Germany had no protection under the law,and at least one prominent member of the black community was beaten to death on the streets by the police which was detailed in the documentary.

"The reason the Nazis let blacks be was for propaganda purposes; many of the black dance troupes performed dressed in tribal costumes, and the Nazis presented them as savages, stereotyping the whole black race this way. The Nazis contrasted this 'savagery' of blacks with their view of the advanced civilization and culture of the white, Aryan Germans. Below is a related link regarding how many blacks came to be in Germany.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005479

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
Kerry says Israeli, Palestinian deal possible by end of April
Reuters
3 hours ago

I believe Kerry is naive to a fault. This has been on-going for five decades.

I would bet heavily against this EVER happening...let alone by the end of April. In any case, he probably mean the end of April 2087.

Accord will only be reached by ending the State of Israel in that area...or by having every Jew or every Arab killed. So long as there is a State of Israel in the area...and ANY Arabs at all...no process will produce a true peace.

(Just my opinion.)

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

I believe Kerry is naive to a fault. This has been on-going for five decades.

True, but the world's climate towards Israel has changed. The UN General Assembly voted to recognise the Palestinians as a non-member observer state, a move strongly opposed by Israel and the US. The Palestinians are in a stronger position today than before the Obama administration.

Palestinians Will Outnumber Jews in Israel by 2020
JERUSALEM — The Palestinian statistics bureau estimates that Arabs will outnumber Jews in the Holy Land by the end of the decade, a scenario that could have grave implications for both Israel and the Palestinians.

The bureau said Tuesday that 5.8 million Arabs live in Israel, the West Bank, Gaza, and east Jerusalem. That compares to about 6 million Israeli Jews, according to Israeli data.

It said that based on current birth rates, the two populations would be equal in 2016, and in 2020, Arabs would outnumber Jews by 7.2 million to 6.9 million.

The demographic issue is a main argument for Israeli backers of creation of a Palestinian state.

In a world that's getting smaller as we speak, there is no room for an apartheid nation and the world will not continue to tolerate such.

http://www.newsmaxworld.com/GlobalTalk/israel-palestinians-outnumber-jews/2013/01/02/id/469693

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

What you say is true, but I don't know of any settler on stolen land moving to another location.

Quote:

Israeli Settlements on Palestinian and Syrian Land

Map showing the many Israeli Settlements on the Palestinian West Bank and Gaza Strip and in the Syrian Golan Heights (as of 1996).
source: UN

Following the 1967 war, Israel began establishing numerous settlements, or illegal housing developments for Jewish Israelis only on stolen Palestinian land (colonies). There are now thousands of these settlements throughout the West Bank and Gaza, as well as numerous settlements in the Syrian Golan Heights.

Settlements are one of the major blockages to a peaceful and just resolution to Israel’s conflict with the Palestinians and other Arabs. The "roadmap" to peace calls on Israel to dismantle these settlements and to return the land to the rightful owners. Unfortunately, Israel continues to expand existing settlements and to build new ones.

Israeli settlers, who are known for their Jewish fundamentalism and desire to take the rest of Palestine (and perhaps even parts of other Arab lands) for Israel, usually carry large guns. They travel on specially built “bypass roads,” that now crisscross the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Palestinians are not allowed to use these roads.

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

According to the latest published research (essays from a workshop in 2011), about 1,000 blacks lived in Germany.
Until Stalingrad, the way how authorities dealt with them, varied - from just taking no notice over supporting to stripping the citizenship and imprisonment.

The number of German blacks has been 1,000 - plus/minus, considering of what you call "black".

In concentration camps died between 31 and 2,000 - the first number is said by an author to be verified (by whom?), the second seems a guess. [The "normal" death rate in concentration camps was 1/3 of the imprisoned population per year.]

It is not known, if any at or how many blacks were sent to gas chambers.

2 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

About Kerry's hope for Iran.

Quote:

Iran quits nuclear talks protesting US blacklist move

Quote:

The Mehr news agency quoted informed sources as saying that the "new American sanctions" were the reason for the interruption.

"The negotiations were halted by the Iranian delegation because of new American sanctions. The Iranian negotiating team has halted the talks at this stage," it said.

Kerry says talks making progress

View galleryKerry testifies on agreements over Iran's nuclear …
Secretary of State John Kerry testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, Dec. 10, 2013, befor …
Kerry, however, made no mention of a breakdown in the talks in remarks to reporters as he concluded a trip to Israel.

"We’re making progress, but I think we’re at a point in those talks where folks feel a need to consult, take a moment," he said.

"There is every expectation that talks are going to continue in the next few days."

A spokesman for the EU foreign policy chief also said both sides needed to return home for consultations and that Iran's move was not unilateral.

"After four days of lengthy and detailed talks, reflecting the complexity of the technical issues discussed, it became clear that further work is needed," Ashton's spokesman Michael Mann said.

"There will now be consultations in capitals, in the expectation that technical talks will continue soon," he added.

Under Iran's deal with the P5+1 -- Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States plus Germany -- Washington agreed to refrain from imposing new sanctions on Iran.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Thanks for the additional info, Walter. From my research many years ago, I found one recorded black sent to Auschwitz, and he was an Ethiopian. Records do reflect more black or mulattoes were killed randomly in Germany because they were thought to be inferior...but they were not targeted specifically; the total number of blacks in Germany were really insignificant when compared to others destined for extermination.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

What you say is true, but I don't know of any settler on stolen land moving to another location.

If there is to be a positive future for Israel they will have to return land. That is the solution. With Israel surrounded by angry neighbors, along with the world on the side of the Palestinians, what is Israel going to do to bring peace of mind to its citizens?! Now if Israel doesn't mind living in such a dangerous environment, then they don't have to change. Israel has super bad weapons, but like South Africa, that will not be enough to prevent the growing Palestinian population from using any means necessary when Israel least expect it....let's face it, Israel simply cannot kill all the Arabs....some get away, you know, to live and fight another day. We must not discount the powerful influence of the Europeans natons who are poised to begin sanctions and the US will be helpless to help its MASTER, Israel.

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@Moment-in-Time,

It's hard to peddle nonsense about international global conspiracies when the race in question has spent the last two hundred odd years enslaved.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Under Iran's deal with the P5+1 -- Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States plus Germany -- Washington agreed to refrain from imposing new sanctions on Iran.

The above is an excerpt from your post, Ci. I am delighted they will not impose new sanctions on Iran....PLEASE GIVE PEACE A CHANCE.

The rush to impose sanctions can be led directly to Israel's door and I think the Saudi Royals. But the country most anxious is the Zionist nation who is employing all its influence and power toward the US congress who in turn is pressuring President Obama; I am thrilled Barack is remaining impenetrable against Bibi Netanyahu's stubbornness to keep sanctions in place and even add more.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

It's hard to peddle nonsense about international global conspiracies when the race in question has spent the last two hundred odd years enslaved.

I'm not as sharp as I should be right now so please clarify. Thanks....like what international global conspiracies? I gather the 200 odd years mean the US?!

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

The Nazis demonised the Jews by using Czarist forgeries like The Protocols Of Zion. They accused the Jews of starting the war by conspiring against the German people. Long before they invaded Poland they stated that if there was a war it would be the fault of the Jews, because those in Wall Street and the Bolshevik Jews in the Kremlin, had been conspiring together to enfeeble Germany. The fact that there were many wealthy Jews, helped their argument.

It's hard to make a similar case about a people who had spent a lot of time in chains working plantations. Btw, I wasn't having a go at America, all the major powers were involved in the slave trade. Liverpool was built on the slave trade.

3 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

The Nazis demonised the Jews by using Czarist forgeries like The Protocols Of Zion. They accused the Jews of starting the war by conspiring against the German people. Long before they invaded Poland they stated that if there was a war it would be the fault of the Jews, because those in Wall Street and the Bolshevik Jews in the Kremlin, had been conspiring together to enfeeble Germany. The fact that there were many wealthy Jews, helped their argument.

It's hard to make a similar case about a people who had spent a lot of time in chains working plantations. Btw, I wasn't having a go at America, all the major powers were involved in the slave trade. Liverpool was built on the slave trade.

Thanks for your quick response, Izzy. I might get back to you later, after reflection. Right now, I have to split.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

Good on ya! It's true that the UK was involved in the slave trade, and so were Africans in Africa. Trying to identify one or a couple of guilty party in any atrocity is sort of ignorant, because most have been there, done that!~

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

It's hard to make a similar case about a people who had spent a lot of time in chains working plantations.

The main "pro-point", however, was the foreign policy of the Nazis: they didn't want to make England an enemy, and they did have some colonising ideas themselves. (Most blacks were from the former German colonies or descendants from there.)

This only changed after Stalingrad.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

izzythepush wrote:
It's hard to make a similar case about a people who had spent a lot of time in chains working plantations.

Now that bit about slaves working plantations eludes me completely. Where is the connection with what we're discussing?

Walter Hinteler wrote

Quote:

The main "pro-point", however, was the foreign policy of the Nazis: they didn't want to make England an enemy, and they did have some colonising ideas themselves. (Most blacks were from the former German colonies or descendants from there.)

This only changed after Stalingrad.

Happy Saturday morning, Walter Hinteler. I think, and I may be absolutely wrong, that Izzy meant I was blaming the Jews for wanting to invade Iran more so than any other country and that would be a cooked up conspiracy comparable to: "the Protocols of Zionism."

Izzy wrote:

Quote:

The Nazis demonised the Jews by using Czarist forgeries like The Protocols Of Zion. They accused the Jews of starting the war by conspiring against the German people. Long before they invaded Poland they stated that if there was a war it would be the fault of the Jews, because those in Wall Street and the Bolshevik Jews in the Kremlin, had been conspiring together to enfeeble Germany. The fact that there were many wealthy Jews, helped their argument.

I had written I was delighted Obama was trying diplomacy first instead of added sanctions against Iran which is what Netanyahu, PM of Israel, has been agitating into a near frenzy by his impassioned oratory to anyone who would listen. The Israeli PM, instead of trying for diplomacy first, would like to worsen the sanctions against the Persian nation and if not that, he'd like the US to bomb Iran. The world's leading countries agreed with Obama who called the gradual easing of sanctions against Iran, "a beginning first step which could lead to a greater peace." Of course it could all fall apart because of some harliners in Iran, and even discontents in the US like John McCain, but my fingers are crossed. Perhaps Izzy meant I was being too harsh on Israel in the light of all the other political opposition out there. Well, the opposition in the US is stemming from AIPAC who pays the US congress handsomely to be pro-Israel and this is why there is such booming noise. I believe if the money was rich enough the congress would favor Israel over the American people, after all, we did invade Iraq partially because Israel wanted to get rid of a perceived enemy, Saddam Hussein, and over 4,500 + US military died and for what?....NOTHING! Not to mention the untold number of dead Iraqis, refugees and those maimed and mangled for life.

So no, I do not trust Israel.

I have not the slightest intention of backing down from my statement that Israel has been the greatest firebrand against Iran. Sure, Saudi Arabia would like sanctions to continue but this country, is not likely to of its own volition bomb Iran and in the long run can be reasoned with. Israel, on the other hand, is still threatening to bomb Iran, "even if they have to go it alone"
although I must admit they've toned it down a bit.

Perhaps, Izzy believes I am creating a conspiracy with my voiced opinions against Israel....well, sorry about that but I'm not about to change my views unless someone can prove me wrong...I can be persuaded by an intelligent argument.

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

I think, and I may be absolutely wrong, that Izzy meant I was blaming the Jews for wanting to invade Iran more so than any other country and that would be a cooked up conspiracy comparable to: "the Protocols of Zionism."

You are, I'm not accusing you of anything. The question was why didn't Nazi Germany persecute Afro-Caribbeans to the same extent that they persecuted the Jews. I think I've answered that question. Nazi Germany could fabricate evidence to make it look as if the Jews were the aggressor, that there was a conspiracy going back thousands of years and that Capitalist Jews in New York were conspiring with Bolchevik Jews in the Kremlin. It was a lot harder to make the same case for those of Afro- Caribbean descent.

I wasn't implying anything about Iran/Israel, or blaming one country to be more culpable in the slave trade, and I definitely wasn't accusing you of anything.

2 Replies

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

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