63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 12:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Do you really believe one Jew's life is more important than the thousands of Palestinians killed by Jews? Really?


You've got to ask? Advocate has made it quite clear that he considers some people to be less than human, Arabs, Persians, Afro-Caribbeans, Europeans. He's not said anything about Asians yet, but after arguing with you I'm sure he'd love to consign you to the flames with the rest of us.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 12:28 pm
@izzythepush,
There are opinions of people that negates humanity and equality of peoples even when their own people have been victimized. In those cases, I consider the source of those ignorant retorts and opinions, but I challenge them to make sure their arguments are not accepted at fact or the truth.

They have the freedom of speech, and so do we. If we do nothing to challenge them, we allow their message to survive.


McTag
 
  0  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 12:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You mean like Jewish nazis?
Advocate
 
  1  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 01:00 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

Advocate says:
Quote:
@cicerone imposter,

They were not Palestinian lands. There is no country called Palestine. Jews have lived in the area for centuries and have the right to build settlements there.


There was no country called Israel until 1947. Palestinians lived in the area that is now called Israel for centuries and were illegally evicted. They have the right to return to their previous lands and build settlements there.


They were not evicted. They abandoned their new country at the urging of the Arab armies preparing to invade the new Israel. Let's be honest.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 01:57 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
Let's be honest.
UNRWA definition, following the United Nations Resolution 194 of 1948:
Quote:
Palestine refugees are defined as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”
Advocate
 
  1  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 02:36 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
UN agencies have been notoriously anti-Semitic.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 02:49 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

UN agencies have been notoriously anti-Semitic.
I don't have the time to look for sources to look about the anti-Semitism in the 15 UN-agencies. Besides that, I doubt that it is related to anything I wrote here.


UNRWA is a subsidiary organ of the United Nations General Assembly, founded in 1948.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 02:56 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
United Nations News Centre
with breaking news from the UN News Service

UN rights office voices concern over forced evictions of Palestinians in West Bank

27 August 2013 – The United Nations human rights office today expressed concern over the forced eviction of Palestinians in the West Bank as a result of recent demolitions carried out by Israeli authorities, and noted this could amount to a violation of international law.

The demolitions began on 19 August and have been carried out by Israeli authorities in at least six different locations, including East Jerusalem, the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) said.

In one incident, Israeli authorities demolished all of the structures in the Bedouin community of Tel al Adassa in East Jerusalem, rendering some 39 people homeless, citing a lack of building permits.

“The Israeli authorities ordered the community to evacuate the area permanently or risk high monetary fines and confiscation of livestock,” OHCHR spokesperson Cécile Pouilly told reporters in Geneva.

“No alternative locations or housing options were offered. Left with no choice, the community has split and moved to two different temporary locations, where they remain vulnerable to further demolitions and repeated displacement due to lack of legal security of tenure and inability to obtain building permits.”

Ms. Pouilly said the permanent removal of the families from Tel al Adassa may amount to a violation of the prohibition to forcibly transfer individuals or communities under article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The case also raises concerns regarding the prohibition of forced eviction under international human rights law, and the right to adequate housing and freedom from arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy, family and home.

OHCHR also expressed concern over reports of excessive use of force by Israeli security forces against Palestinian civilians in refugee camps in the West Bank. Since 18 August, at least four Palestinian civilians have been killed during search and arrest operations and at least 19 have been injured.

“While we do not yet have sufficient information to make an assessment of each of these specific cases, we have raised our concerns several times before, including in our reports, regarding the excessive use of force by Israeli security forces in law enforcement operations in the West Bank,” Ms. Pouilly said.

She added that the Israeli Government has the obligation to investigate all cases in an independent and impartial manner and hold accountable all those responsible for violations. OHCHR also urged Israeli authorities to publish its findings on the matter.


Advocate, Are you also against the Geneva Convention?
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 03:20 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:

The interesting thing is that Israel immedicately accepted, and lived by, the UN partition
.

Your statement is pure B-S! Yitzhak Shamir joined the Irgun Zvai Leumi, a Zionist paramilitary group that opposed British control of Palestine.When the Irgun split in 1940, Shamir joined the more militant faction Lehi, also known as the Stern Gang, headed by Avraham Stern. The Stern Gang hit the ground running, attacking Palestinians, chasing them out of their homes....many who're still alive still hold the keys to the homes the European Jews stole...and this began in 1948!

Quote:
It did that despite hundreds of attacks by the Pals, and the Pal seizure of part of the "internationalized" Jerusalem. The Pals desecrated Jewish holy places in this would-be internationalized area. The last straw for Israel were the Pal and other Arab forces attacks during the '67 war. As you know, Israel then took the rest of Jerusalem.


The Palestinians would not have minded European Jews moving in besides them, after all, they were used to Jews for hundreds of years; what they objected to was the European Jews wanting to own the entire region along with their widespread slaughter of the Palestinians by the Stern Gang, and the taking of land and more and more land.

If I were a Palestinian I would fight back too against those taking my land...what did you expect the Pals to do, roll over and play dead?!?!

Another thing regarding Jerusalem. When the rogue Zionist nation asked to join the UN it was initially refused. Later, they tried again with the UN asking them them to promise they would not occupy Jerusalem because that part of Palestine was considered an "Open City" for all religions and should not belong to just one nation. Israel swore up and down they would not touch Jerusalem. As soon as they received UN membership, the treacherous little country took over Jerusalem, calling it the capital of Israel.

The rest of the world to this day refuse recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital and all Israeli business is still done in Tel Aviv, even by its puppet, the US. At one time when Newt Gingrich was visiting Israel, he mentioned to the then PM that if he became president he would allow Jerusalem to become Israel's capital. If the right US president, ruled by the NEOCONS, ever get in power again, not only will they go to war in Iran but make sure that Jerusalem becomes Israel's capital.

Today, Israel is edging itself toward isolation by the European nations. Bibi Netanyahu did not attend Mandela's Memorial today among all the world's most distinguished Heads. He knows in Europe they are looking with scorn upon his underhanded administration. In America, one doesn't read too much criticism regarding Israel in the media, but have no doubt, hostile feelings against the Jewish nation and its political power led by AIPAC is grinding on many people's nerves and Israel has its enemies. The Boycott and Divestment Movement against Israel which involves various faith-based and campus-based divestment initiatives is very much alive and well, primed to go just like it was for Apartheid SA; it's just that our hands are still tied as the US government will not allow it.....but there will come a day!

Our Defense Secretary, Chuck Hagel, is hated by Israel and the NEOCONS in Congress but he managed to scrape by and become Defense Head. He is just one among many who stands tall, highly critical of Israel, and its powerful influence on US policy. During the GWB tenure Israel was in control of foreign policy in the middle east. Today, it has Barack Obama who is doing things his way with diplomatic gestures combined with those of the European nations. Netanyahu is having conniptions because he wants the US to bomb Iran; Israel keeps sending signals it will attack the Persian nation's nuclear facility but with over 77 million inhabitants, Iran is the world's 17th-most-populous nation and if it responded to Israel's attack, the Zionist nation would need the US support. American military are tired of dying for Israel; the war in Iraq was done primarily for Israel with the oil as a bonus to Dick Cheney, payment for going in and getting rid of Saddam Hussein.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 04:43 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
Your statement is pure B-S! Yitzhak Shamir joined the Irgun Zvai Leumi, a Zionist paramilitary group that opposed British control of Palestine.When the Irgun split in 1940, Shamir joined the more militant faction Lehi, also known as the Stern Gang, headed by Avraham Stern. The Stern Gang hit the ground running, attacking Palestinians, chasing them out of their homes....many who're still alive still hold the keys to the homes the European Jews stole...and this began in 1948!


They were active before then.

Quote:
Lehi split from the Irgun militant group in 1940 in order to continue fighting the British during World War II. Lehi initially sought alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, offering to fight alongside them against the British in return for the transfer of all Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine. On the belief that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis.[


That's right, they twice tried to ally with the Nazis. Post 1940, post Kristallnacht.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
While we're talking about Nazis.
Quote:
When the South African prime minister John Vorster made a state visit to Israel in April 1976, it began with a tour of Yad Vashem, Israel's major Holocaust memorial, where the late Yitzhak Rabin invited the onetime Nazi collaborator, unabashed racist and white supremacist to pay homage to Jews murdered in the Holocaust.

Compared, say, to routine outcries from organized Jewry over often even mild whiffs of Holocaust controversy, no less remarkable was the bland equanimity both Israeli and diaspora Jews also displayed toward the Vorster visit.

Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi recalls [The Israeli Connection, Random House: Toronto, 1987, p.x]:
"For most Israelis, the Vorster visit was just another state visit by a foreign leader. It did not draw much attention. Most Israelis did not even remember his name, and did not see anything unusual, much less surreal in the scene [an old Nazi diehard invited to 'mourn' the victims at a Holocaust memorial]: Vorster was just another visiting dignitary being treated to the usual routine."
The old Nazi collaborator was graciously welcomed by his hosts. The South African leader left Israel four days later -- after signing a number of friendship treaties between the Jewish state and South Africa's racist, apartheid regime. A denouement Leslie and Andrew Cockburn describe in Dangerous Liaison [Stoddart Publishing: Toronto, 1991, pp. 299 - 300]:
"The old Nazi sympathizer came away with bilateral agreements for commercial, military, and nuclear cooperation that would become the basis for future relations between the two countries."
Leaving unmentioned Vorster's wartime internment for supporting Germany, Israel's prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin, hailed the South African premier as a force for freedom and made no mention of Vorster's past as he toured the Jerusalem memorial to the six million Jews murdered by the Nazis. At a state banquet, Rabin toasted "the ideals shared by Israel and South Africa: the hopes for justice and peaceful coexistence". Both countries, he said, faced "foreign-inspired instability and recklessness".


http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/php/event.php?eid=1134
McTag
 
  1  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 05:09 pm
@McTag,

Quote:
You mean like Jewish nazis?


Zionist nazis might be better.

We learned the meaning of Untermenschen and Lebensraum from nazi propaganda in the 1930s, and here it is again: history repeating itself in the must unthinkable way.
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 05:49 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Lehi split from the Irgun militant group in 1940 in order to continue fighting the British during World War II. Lehi initially sought alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, offering to fight alongside them against the British in return for the transfer of all Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine. On the belief that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis.[


Oh, I'm well acquainted with Lehi group's activities' previous history, it's well documented. I was just answering Advocate's claim there was no indigenous Palestinians or Palestinian land.

Quote:
When the South African prime minister John Vorster made a state visit to Israel in April 1976, it began with a tour of Yad Vashem, Israel's major Holocaust memorial, where the late Yitzhak Rabin invited the onetime Nazi collaborator, unabashed racist and white supremacist to pay homage to Jews murdered in the Holocaust.


I recall reading that, how Israel gave this fancy state visit for this one time Nazi collaborator. In fact, Israel also delivered many military arms to the Apartheid nation when the entire world had applied sanctions against South Africa.

The only Israeli PM I can remember who was authentically decent was the late Yitzhak Rabin who was assassinated by a settler extremist (who smiled at his trial as if he were an idiot) after he had successfully negotiated a PLO-Israeli Peace Accord with Yasser Arafat. Rabin received the Nobel Peace Prize, along with Yasser Arafat and Shimon Peres. Other than that, unscruplous power-hungry PMs have followed one after the other with Netanyahu being investigated for accepting gifts the first time he was PM. The former PM, Ariel Sharon, was under investigation for fraud before he was stricken and now lies in a vegetative state; this PM was held responsible for the Sabra and Shatila massacre where the slaughter of between 762 and 3,500 civilians, mostly Palestinians and Lebanese Shiites, by the Lebanese Christian militia in the Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut, Lebanon.

Sharon was the General in charge of the IDF who stood guard at all exits so no one, not a child, woman or man would escape the killing by the Lebanese Christian militia. Sharon lost his exalted position of General and demoted. But it seems Fate has solved his problem.



The nation of Israel is built on fear and superstition and paranoia is what drives these people to manipulate and screw others; they're have been most successful in bribing the US congress, and in other western country. There is a great deal of pressure on President Obama right now because he's trying the diplomatic route with Iran; the congress, doing Netanyahu's bidding, is highly criticizing the president. But he should not stop, no not at all. "Give Peace a Chance" for once.

The Holocaust, in many ways, has been a successful industry for modern Israel.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 06:04 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Advocate said, Quote:
Quote:
The interesting thing is that Israel immedicately accepted, and lived by, the UN partition



Mit responded,
Quote:
Your statement is pure B-S! Yitzhak Shamir joined the Irgun Zvai Leumi, a Zionist paramilitary group that opposed British control of Palestine.When the Irgun split in 1940, Shamir joined the more militant faction Lehi, also known as the Stern Gang, headed by Avraham Stern. The Stern Gang hit the ground running, attacking Palestinians, chasing them out of their homes....many who're still alive still hold the keys to the homes the European Jews stole...and this began in 1948!


It's obvious Advocate doesn't know about the very history of the people he presumes to support and advocate for, and everybody who provides evidence and facts are all "anti-Semites."

I just wonder what this exchange calls a person like Advocate who provides so much bull shyt that what he says can't be relied upon in any way!

Anyone?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 08:19 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
Today, Israel is edging itself toward isolation by the European nations. Bibi Netanyahu did not attend Mandela's Memorial today among all the world's most distinguished Heads. He knows in Europe they are looking with scorn upon his underhanded administration.

European anti-Semitism is of course a very ugly thing. But they have little ability to harm Israel.

Europe's biggest achievement in this mess is torpedoing the Oslo Accords, making it inevitable now that the Palestinians will eventually all have to be deported out of the West Bank.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
In America, one doesn't read too much criticism regarding Israel in the media, but have no doubt, hostile feelings against the Jewish nation and its political power led by AIPAC is grinding on many people's nerves and Israel has its enemies.

American anti-Semitism is also a very ugly thing.

Fortunately anti-Semitism is not tolerated by polite society in America. These horrible people will forever remain fringe lunatics.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
The Boycott and Divestment Movement against Israel which involves various faith-based and campus-based divestment initiatives is very much alive and well, primed to go just like it was for Apartheid SA; it's just that our hands are still tied as the US government will not allow it.....but there will come a day!

No, there won't come a day. The US is never going to tolerate such anti-Semitism.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
Netanyahu is having conniptions because he wants the US to bomb Iran;

Wrong. Netanyahu has never wanted the US to bomb Iran. If he decides that Iran should be bombed, he will be more than happy to have the Israeli military do it.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
Israel keeps sending signals it will attack the Persian nation's nuclear facility but with over 77 million inhabitants, Iran is the world's 17th-most-populous nation and if it responded to Israel's attack, the Zionist nation would need the US support.

Well, Israel certainly has our support. But Iran is not much of a military threat to Israel.

The biggest problem that will arise if Israel bombs Iran will be the loud whining from all the anti-Semites.

(I do recall your own demand a few years back that the bombing of Iran be done in a manner that would cause catastrophic nuclear meltdowns in all their reactors, but I do not consider it likely that anyone will carry out your insane proposal.)


Moment-in-Time wrote:
American military are tired of dying for Israel;

Most of the American military are not anti-Semites, so they regard any suggestion that they are dying for Israel as deranged kookery.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
the war in Iraq was done primarily for Israel with the oil as a bonus to Dick Cheney, payment for going in and getting rid of Saddam Hussein.

Balderdash! Rolling Eyes
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 08:19 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:
McTag wrote:
You mean like Jewish nazis?

Zionist nazis might be better.
We learned the meaning of Untermenschen and Lebensraum from nazi propaganda in the 1930s, and here it is again: history repeating itself in the must unthinkable way.

You disgusting anti-Semitic pig!

Can't you go commit suicide or something similarly useful?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 08:20 pm
@oralloy,
Everybody who disagrees with Israel's land grab/stealing are anti-Semites.

They don't have anything more to contribute that's even a fraction sensible.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 08:21 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
The only Israeli PM I can remember who was authentically decent was the late Yitzhak Rabin

Interesting how you skip all the Israeli leaders who offered the Palestinians 1967 borders if only they agreed to make peace with Israel.

I guess it is good that those offers are coming to an end. It'll be great fun watching TV coverage of the Palestinians all getting deported out of the West Bank. I hope I'm still alive to see it when it finally happens.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
The Holocaust, in many ways, has been a successful industry for modern Israel.

You really are a monster, aren't you.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 08:49 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:

UN agencies have been notoriously anti-Semitic.


Stop with the hackneyed phrase, "anti-Semitic," for once, Advocate. If it were not for the UN with the backing of the Truman administration the passage for a state in Palestine might not have come about. Harry Truman accepted a trunk load of money for his election campaign from the Zionists and then he pulled every string in the book to make sure the UN had the complete support of the US.

Don't you ever tire of the same ole threadbare saying, Advocate? Everyone is an anti-Semite who criticizes Israel. Since you do not appear discerning enough to distinguish between constructive criticism and hateful comments, perhaps you should stop using the word as overuse can sometime lose its impact making you look dull and uninformed.
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 09:03 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
Quote:

UN agencies have been notoriously anti-Semitic.


One of the reasons you dislike and distrust the UN is simply because they have passed hundreds of resolutions against Israel and the US vetoed most of them at least 98% of the time.

Israel once had a resolution against it that said its apartheid policies were equivalent to racism. John Bolton, the temporary Ambassador at the time, browbeat the UN members so badly they withdrew the resolution.
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 10 Dec, 2013 10:07 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
Stop with the hackneyed phrase, "anti-Semitic," for once, Advocate.

You horrible anti-Semites would really like it if you could spew your vile lies without anyone challenging you, wouldn't you?


Moment-in-Time wrote:
Don't you ever tire of the same ole threadbare saying, Advocate?

Denouncing anti-Semitism is like denouncing the KKK. It's just what ethical people do. It will never get old.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
Everyone is an anti-Semite who criticizes Israel.

The problem is that your supposed "criticism" is an outrageous false accusation.

You anti-Semites have been spreading horrendous false accusations against Jews for hundreds of years. That you aim your horrendous false accusations at Israel does not change what you are doing.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
Since you do not appear discerning enough to distinguish between constructive criticism and hateful comments,

He discerns just fine. You are spewing outrageous anti-Semitic lies, and he has called you on it fair and square.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
perhaps you should stop using the word as overuse can sometime lose its impact making you look dull and uninformed.

You evil thugs would really like it if you were allowed to rampage unopposed, wouldn't you?
0 Replies
 
 

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