Lawsuit over "so help me god" in oath of office.

Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2009 05:26 pm
You never did show all of use where in the Constitution the clause that bans religion and govt is.
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Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 06:39 am
The first amendment bans an Established church. Ergo government should not support a religion, even by implication.
Basically you can't argue for an established church and freedom of worship: the two are incompatible.
Britain has an established church: you can be prosecuted for blasphemy. Muslims get upset because you can say what you like about the Koran.
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Frank Apisa
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 07:14 am
Fount, you wrote:

My argument is simple: it doesnt matter what you or I personally believe. It's the constitution that matters and the rule of law.
I have to accept rubbish, it is what democracy means.
You should accept that under the constitution the state cant do this.


If a person taking an oath of office adds “…so help me god!”… “the state” is not doing anything.

It is perfectly legal in the United States to “believe in gods!”

If someone wants to add those words…the only way the state can get involved is to trample on the persons rights as guaranteed by the Constitution.

Why can you not get that through you head?


Personally people are willing to die for some weird beliefs. Refusing blood transfusions for instance.



I would say that it is likely that in the future people will argue against oath swearing on rounds of taking the lords name in vain. It is the same argument that causes baptists to argue against Santa Claus.
If you believe in small government then I certainly dont want the state poking its nose into my beliefs. It is unnecesary. Therefore junk it.
Junking this now will prevent problems in the future. It is an anarchronism

Your arguments on this issue have become disjointed and frenzied.

Our Constitution gives each individual the right to express “beliefs.” A person adding “so help me god” to an oath is simply doing that.

For you to be arguing that we would be protecting the Constitution by trashing it….makes no sense.

Your position in this matter is wrong…and for you to be tossing out charges of hyocrisy on it are way, way off the mark.
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Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 09:08 am
It is very common for these English who are ignorant of the United States in general, never mind the constitution, to make extravagant statements about our government and society. The first amendment happens to protect several freedoms, and here it is broken down into its component clauses:

Congress shall make no law . . .

respecting an establishment of religion,

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

or abridging the freedom of speech,

or of the press;

or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So, Congress can neither establish a religion, nor prohibit the free exercise of religion. Congress cannot require an individual to invoke god in an oath or affirmation--Congress also cannot prevent an individual from invoking god in an oath or affirmation.
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Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 04:16 pm
Luckily I was here to stimulate debate> Like the ungrateful rotters you are, you will neglect to thank me.
Frank Apisa
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 04:23 pm
I not only thank you, Fount...you are someone I want to encourage to speak out as much as possible. I'd hold the mike for you...so that no one misses a word.

Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 01:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I not only thank you, Fount...you are someone I want to encourage to speak out as much as possible. I'd hold the mike for you...so that no one misses a word.

I see your ripostes have become much more subtle of late Frank. Wink Welcome back! Smile
Frank Apisa
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2009 02:05 pm
Thanks, Rosborne.

Good to be back.

Gotta keep fightin' the good fight!
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