Stand Up Against the war in Gaza.

Boy, do you sound condescending in voicing your opinion about me. You believe I do not know the "basic facts" of the conflict, as you stated above. That is a red-herring, since it implies that if I knew the basic facts of the conflict, I would change my position. No. I would like the Israelis to not have rockets fired at them. That is not an ignorant position.

You have every right to your opinion. I have every right to my opinion. Both opinions are subjective. Just like I voted for McCain, and you might not have. Some might say my vote was based on ignorance? Making it incorrect? That is silly!

How does Israel pressure Egypt? That is silly.

The little secret, I believe, about this Israeli military action is that many people just cannot seem to accept the fact that these Israeli Jews are fighting back, and really upsetting the cognitive dissonance of so many people that see Jews as timid people.

In effect, I believe, many people argue against Israel from the position of the morality that they learned in religious or secular studies. However, some in Israel may be beyond morality, based on feeling quite connected to their history. They are involved with survival. Survival is quite different than morality. That is why we are talking at cross-purposes, and I believe you are possibly frustrated at my supposed level of knowledge of all the nuances of what led up to the conflict. Think of it as a prize fight. I am hoping for one fighter to win. If you do not like that position, please do not try to make me think I should be guilty because you may be the more moral individual regarding this topic.

Is it OK
if we just leave them alone
and mind out own business ?





David

Good point, I believe; however, many people like to question the affairs of Israel, since it implies, I believe, that these Jews are truly not independent, and should acquiesce to the concerns of a non-Jewish world. I think it is a hold-over from the feudal world when the King or Prince owned all the Jews in the Kingdom. Notice that then the peasants never questioned how the King or Prince utilized his Jews. The inference is then that today, common citizens have the prerogative of yesteryear's Kings or Princes. Perhaps, it reflects a form of modern day entitlement?

What on earth are you raving about here?

What on earth does this have to do with the subject of this thread?

A letter to the editor published today in my morning paper:



http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/letters/what-about-the-other-victims-20090102-792l.html?page=-1

Typical repub chickenshit warhawk.

I believe the person that the post was commenting to understands my soliloquy. If you do not, I commiserate.

I still don't see what relevance it has to the subject of the thread.
But anyway ....

Though this discussion dates from 2008, I want to post a reply due to the current war in Gaza 2024:

Firstly, just to be clear:
Israel is Re-established within the Jewish ancestral homeland. Internationally-recognized history shows that the last indigenous sovereign state in the land of Israel (Roman-imposed name “Palestine”), prior to the RE-establishment of Israel in 1948, was the post-Biblical Jewish Hasmonean Kingdom. It included what is now referred to as the “West Bank”, Gaza, and Golan Heights. Capital (what is now East) Jerusalem / “Old City”; between 110 BCE / 754 BH and 63 BCE / 706 BH - Map:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Hasmonean_kingdom.jpg

It is therefore illogical to accuse the Jewish people of:
“Invading”, “stealing”, “illegally-occupying”, “being a colony”, or having “illegal-settlements” on, the Jewish ancestral-homeland.

Why the falsehood of an Israeli "illegal-occupation" and consequential "illegal settlements":

The U.N. and its structures have for many years had a built-in pro Palestinian Arab bias. The Palestinian Arabs start-off in U.N. votes by enjoying a block-vote in their favor of up to 56 Arab and additional Islamic-aligned countries (e.g. U.N. member states that are also members of the “Organization of Islamic Cooperation” and follow its policies when voting in the U.N.), and influence of Arab oil money with consequential trading power; compared to Israel being just one country.


Its human nature to demand/campaign for a cessation of hostilities, where those who one supports are losing a war.

In the current circumstances such demands are intended to preserve Hamas so that they may have the future opportunity to repeat their aggression once the world has paid, as it always does, to allow Hamas to rebuild and rearm.

The Palestinian Arabs' primary support is from anti-Semites:
Little condemnation of the Palestinian Arab - Hamas massacre of Israelis of October 7, 2023, compared with much condemnation of Israel's consequential war of deterrence and defense.

The reader may have noticed the Media reports where there appears to be significant horror expressed as to the wellbeing of the Gazan Palestinian Arabs, yet by comparison, little such horror expressed over the plight of people in other conflict zones such as for example Sudan, and Tigray - Ethiopia.


Survey on Palestinian support for the October 7 2023 massacre:

A survey has been carried out on Palestinian Arab views on the October 7, 2023 massacre, with highlights of the results reported by ILTV, Israel Daily News of November 19, 2023:




If Israel does not prosecute the war against Hamas to the military conclusion, so will there be the risk of a security failure similar to that of October 7, 2023, at some time in the future (whether near-future or distant). In any next such occasion, instead of a thousand terrorists issuing forth from Gaza, a place from which Israel gets zero time warning of any ground-invasion, it will be thousands, with catastrophic consequences for the continuance of the State !


Not having anyone known to me being one of the hostages, I cannot therefore imagine clearly the suffering that the families of the hostages go through on a daily basis.

Why did Hamas take hostages and why have they continued to keep them captive?

I assume it is, to:
Obstruct the Israeli military response.
To cause the families of the hostages to campaign in manner such that the effect thereof is to make less effective or even curtail, the Israeli military response.
To cause dissension and discord within Israeli society.


I would hope that the families of the hostages will consider the following:

Do they want their understandable emotional pain to be inflicted again in the future by the Palestinian Arabs, on more Israeli families, or do they want the IDF to take such steps against the Palestinian Arabs, that the Palestinian Arabs' atrocities of October 7th 2023, should never be repeated?