12
   

Boy! Is English confusing to non-natural speakers like me!

 
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 11:51 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foofie wrote:

However, I believe, the reason the "world" is learning English today is because the U.S.A speaks American English, not because there is a British English, and Indian English, etc.

I shan't be afraid to give the Yanks credit for promulgating the language.


You'r so right: it all started with the American Empire, or even earlier with it's first tentative efforts to establish overseas settlements in the 16th century.

And then, of course, all those famous American authors from the last couple of centuries, whose numerous books intended as guides to American grammar and language until today.

Not to forget that the lingua americana replaced Latin as the language of diplomacy ...



The language of diplomacy used to be French, I thought; the language of science was German, I thought; Latin was the language of the Catholic Church, I thought.

While other (non-English) languages were promulgated during the era of colonization (Africa/Asia/Latin America), English after WWII is what the world started to learn. That, I thought, was due to the U.S. becoming the world's business leader.

And, I thought German is spoken in a few little known towns in South America, in addition to Switzerland and Germany?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 01:09 pm
@Foofie,
Though it's Christmas already here, I was a bit ironic, Foofie

Foofie wrote:

And, I thought German is spoken in a few little known towns in South America, in addition to Switzerland and Germany?


You're correct, nearly:
- it's spoken in Germany,
- but only in a part of Switzerland (the so-called German-speaking Swistzerland ).

And then, all Austria thinks that they speak German.
German is spoken as official well as in the 'German-speaking Community' (a small state in the Belgian federation) and in Denmark by the tyske mindretal. In Luxembourg it's one of the three official languages, in Liechtenstein it's the only official language. In the French departments of the Alsdace and the department Moselle German is an "offical regional language". In Italy (South-Tyrol), German and Italian are the official languages.


Then, there are still some hundred thousands German speaking people in various East European countries, minorities, descendents from immigrants in 17th/18th/19th century.

I suppose the number of German speaking people in South America is less that on the US-East coast.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 06:11 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Though it's Christmas already here, I was a bit ironic, Foofie

Foofie wrote:

And, I thought German is spoken in a few little known towns in South America, in addition to Switzerland and Germany?


You're correct, nearly:
- it's spoken in Germany,
- but only in a part of Switzerland (the so-called German-speaking Swistzerland ).

And then, all Austria thinks that they speak German.
German is spoken as official well as in the 'German-speaking Community' (a small state in the Belgian federation) and in Denmark by the tyske mindretal. In Luxembourg it's one of the three official languages, in Liechtenstein it's the only official language. In the French departments of the Alsdace and the department Moselle German is an "offical regional language". In Italy (South-Tyrol), German and Italian are the official languages.


Then, there are still some hundred thousands German speaking people in various East European countries, minorities, descendents from immigrants in 17th/18th/19th century.

I suppose the number of German speaking people in South America is less that on the US-East coast.


Let us not forget that there is a 15th century "dialect" of German that is spoken around the world by the Chassidim. For some reason, they have not given up on Yiddish? They have made it their mother tongue, I thought? In my own opinion, it is because they are preserving something from the no longer existing shtetl.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 02:13 am
@Foofie,
I'm not sure if it's really a dialect or an own language - there are both opinions, I think.
It's a non-territorial High German language in my opinion, has never been just focused to a certain country (since 10th/11th century).
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 02:28 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
...since 10th/11th century...


Might perhaps be a bit to early - the oldest (until now) known written text in yiddish (here) is the so-called "Wormser Machsor" (mahzor from Worms), 1272/3.
http://www.stadtarchiv.worms.de/Bilder/P3179913.jpg

Quote:
The Yiddish verse in the Worms Mahzor is the oldest Yiddish text
known to us today which can be dated with certainty. It seems
likely that several Yiddish glosses in other undated manuscripts
are earlier, but this cannot be established with certainty.

source
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 02:57 am
@easyasabc,
Quote:
Boy! Is English confusing to non-natural speakers like me!


Are you NON-NATURAL when u speak English ?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 02:52 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Interesting; I did not know the language/dialect went back that far? Since the Chassidim have many children, on average, it will probably be spoken for some time? Unless, there is the possibility, it will be supplanted by Hebrew? I am the wrong person to pontificate on this subject.

Not to denigrate any other language, but I hope the day comes when the world all speaks English. Esperanto does not seem to have taken hold, so English may have to compensate as a language for international use? The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain (from My Fair Lady/Pygmalion).
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 03:04 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Interesting; I did not know the language/dialect went back that far? Since the Chassidim have many children, on average, it will probably be spoken for some time? Unless, there is the possibility, it will be supplanted by Hebrew? I am the wrong person to pontificate on this subject.


The first written documents are all from places where members of the Kalonymus family lived (in German "Kalonymiden").
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 04:52 pm
@hamburger,
Quote:
for a little fun , read the book : between you and i - a little book of bad english - by james cochrane .

it's a slim volume but packs a lot of punch (cochrane probably wouldn't approve of my comments - bad , bad bad , he would say) .


In all likelihood it's a slim little volume, Hamburger, because it parallels his knowledge of language.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 05:01 pm
@easyasabc,
Every language has its anomalies and its seeming anomalies, Easy. Don't try to figure language out for it creates its own sense of logic.
0 Replies
 
 

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