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Illinois Governor Arrested

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2008 03:14 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Wiki lists sources okie. Wiki itself isn't biased.

Check the source and if you think it is biased then you can ask for an edit or even do it yourself. Whining about a bias when it is easy to take care of is your problem, not Wikis.

So any journalist writings are worthless then, according to some. All of them have a bias.

I actually believe York more, I think he has at least some credibility by virtue of not being a flaming liberal in the tank for liberals and liberal causes.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2008 03:38 pm
@okie,
okie, You realy are an idiot; only your brain would think up
Quote:
So any journalist writings are worthless then, according to some. All of them have a bias.


0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2008 04:49 pm
Quote:
Blagojevich Lawyer Challenges Impeachment Committee
(By DOUGLAS BELKIN, LAUREN ETTER and JOE BARRETT, Wall Street Journal, December 17, 2008)

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. -- The lawyer for Gov. Rod Blagojevich challenged a state legislature impeachment committee Wednesday, saying some members should be removed because they had already made up their minds, questioning the admissibility of the government affidavit that led to the governor's arrest last week and asking for more time to prepare his case.

The chairwoman of the committee shot down each of his objections.

"We can't do this on one day's notice." Mr. Genson said, in his first remarks to the committee. "We ask that this matter be adjourned to give us more time to prepare."

But committee Chairwoman Barbara Flynn Currie said the impeachment would not be delayed. "We can't wait around and put this off for six months or another year," she said.

Separately, he Illinois Supreme Court declined to hear a motion by state Attorney General Lisa Madigan to declare Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich unfit to serve. The court made no further comment.

Mr. Blagojevich was arrested last week and charged in a federal criminal complaint with attempting to sell the Senate seat vacated by President-elect Barack Obama. The attorney general argued that the legal troubles were making it impossible for the governor to do his job.

Attorney General Madigan said she was disappointed with the ruling.

"Because of Governor Blagojevich's refusal to resign, the state of Illinois is in an unsustainable situation," she said in a statement. "The serious criminal charges against Gov. Blagojevich strike directly at the heart of his decision-making process and seriously impede his ability to legitimately exercise the powers of his office. Thus, while the U.S. Attorney's Office and the impeachment process move forward, the state is left with a governor who cannot make effective decisions on critical and time-sensitive issues."

Mr. Genson also filed papers asking the Illinois attorney general's office to allow the governor to choose his own counsel rather than be represented by Ms. Madigan as is set forth by Illinois law.

Mr. Genson said having Ms. Madigan represent the governor would present a conflict of interest since the attorney general has asked for the governor to resign.

"Obviously, the Attorney General has a conflict of interest and cannot represent Governor Blagojevich in the foregoing" matters, Mr. Genson wrote.

Mr. Genson said he and two other attorneys -- Eli Rosenbloom and Sheldon Sorosky -- are the governor's counsels of choice.

In effect Mr. Genson is asking the state to pay his legal fees.

A spokeswoman at the attorney general's office said they will respond by the next day. Under the Illinois law the attorney general is expected to "defend all actions and proceedings against any State officer," including the governor.

In addition the attorney general has a duty to "consult with and advise the governor and other state officers, and give, when requested, written opinions upon all legal or constitutional questions relating to the duties of such officers respectively."

Mr. Genson, who arrived at the state capitol first-floor hearing room in a black pin-striped suit and leaning heavily on a black cane, shook hands with three members of the committee before the hearing began and acknowledged House Speaker Michael Madigan. Then, before the committee had even passed the rules, he asked that three members of the 21 member committee be recused "based on predisposition to this case … Their comments showed Rod Blagojevich can't get a fair trial." Mr. Genson was referring to comments the three members made at first meeting of committee on Tuesday morning.

When Ms. Curry refused to do that, Mr. Genson tried to have the affidavit junked, saying it was illegal to use it in a trial. Ms. Currie refused to throw out the 76-page affidavit and the committee council began reading from it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2008 05:37 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Ill. high court rejects attempt to remove governor
The Illinois Supreme Court on Wednesday denied an effort to remove Gov. Rod Blagojevich, rejecting what could have been the quickest way to force the disgraced Democrat from office. The ruling came as the governor's attorney challenged the strength of the corruption case against Blagojevich before a panel of lawmakers that is considering whether to recommend impeachment.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 10:10 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
I will post the link again, read it again, and ask yourself, seriously, if Ms. Rezko, wife of Obama's fundraising friend and corrupt political Chicago promoter and part of the Chicago machine, just happened to out of the blue buy the adjoining lot to the Obamas, it was pure conincidence, Joe?

http://makethemaccountable.com/index.php/2008/08/10/more-than-just-a-boneheaded-mistake/

This is really too funny. Here's what your source says:
Quote:
Simply put, the allocation of purchase price between the Obamas’ lot and the lot next door, which were both owned by the same couple and had long been sold together, makes no sense unless the amount paid for the lot adjoining the Obamas’, by the wife of now convicted political fixer Tony Rezko, was specifically meant as a favor to the Obamas, so that they could afford their mansion.

How does the author of your source, Carolyn Kay, know that? Well, this gets complicated, so follow along carefully.

Apparently, Kay has decided that the sellers of the property first priced both lots as a single lot. The asking price for that single lot was $2.575 million. How did she come up with that figure? That was the initial asking price for the two lots when they went up for sale individually -- Kay has no information regarding the asking price for the single lot, so she's just guessing here.

Next, she tries to figure out how much each lot was worth, based not on the asking prices for those lots, but on ... well, take a look:
Quote:
It is common in the real estate industry to separate the house vs. land value from a total purchase price by assuming that 75% of the price is attributable to the house and 25% to the land. And 25% of the $1.65 million that the Obamas paid for their house and land is $412,500. By this test, the Rezko property should have been priced at less than that amount, as it had less square footage. Instead, Rita Rezko paid half again as much.

OK, so the lot without the house should have been worth less than the lot with the house, because it was smaller and ... well, it didn't have a house on it. Oh, if life were only so simple. No matter that the side lot was on the corner of a major street (Hyde Park Blvd) and that it is zoned RM-5, which means that the owner can build a multi-unit building, up to four stories, on that lot (do your own search here, it's fun and easy! -- the address of the side lot is 5050 S. Greenwood Ave). No, none of that matters. According to Kay, the only thing that determines the value of a piece of property is its size in relation to the piece of property next to it.

But that's not enough for Kay. She next tries to determine the value of the property based upon the price paid by Obama for the small strip of land that he purchased from Rezko.
Quote:
Again from the 11/1/06 Tribune article (and also from the Recorder’s Office’s online records), we know that on January 11, 2006 the Obamas bought a strip of the Rezko lot that adjoined their property. As the Tribune describes the transaction,

Using a standard formula, Obama’s appraiser estimated the 1,500-square-foot portion at a market value of $40,500.

But Obama felt it would be fair to pay the Rezkos $104,500, or a sixth of their original $625,000 purchase price, because he was acquiring a sixth of their land

If an assessor valued 1/6 of the property at $40,500, wouldn’t that mean the market value assessment of the whole Rezko property at that time would be $40,500 x 6 = $243,000? Admittedly, the valuation of a strip of land may be lower because it is such a small portion of a property, but could that possibility account for the huge difference between the two values?

Now, one should realize that, in Cook County, the assessed value of a piece of property bears only a vague relationship to the property's actual value (a fact that even Kay acknowledges). Nevertheless, she takes the assessed value of the side lot and compares it to the price paid for one-sixth of that lot, and proclaims that the assessed value must be right. Why is the assessed value a better gauge of the property's true worth? Because Kay says so, that's why.

So, what does this all mean? According to Kay, the side lot was worth a whole lot less than the $625k that Rezko paid for it. So, it logically follows, Rezko must have paid full price for it in order to help Obama buy the house lot. How do we know that? Because Obama couldn't afford both lots, and the seller wouldn't sell the house lot without selling the side lot along with it.

Now here's where we get into a lot of trouble. First, Kay must assume that the sellers wouldn't sell one lot without the other. The problem here, though, is that the sellers had already tried that and failed. They initially tried to sell both lots as a single lot and couldn't find anyone to buy it. Now, according to Kay, the best way out of this impasse for the sellers was to split up the properties but still sell them as a unit, which is a selling tactic that has one significant drawback: it makes no sense whatsoever. Really, if you can't sell one big piece of property, why would you split them up if you still insist on selling them as a unit? For normal people, splitting the two lots means that the two lots are intended to be sold individually. For Kay, splitting the lots was just a better way of selling both of them together than selling them as a single lot. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Second, Kay has to assume that Obama needed Rezko's financial assistance in the first place. If Obama could have afforded both lots, then the notion that Rezko was doing Obama a favor by buying the side lot doesn't make much sense. Here's what she says:
Quote:
At the time, the Obamas’ finances were good, but not good enough to buy a $2.5 million mansion. The 11/1/06 Tribune article reports that the Obamas obtained a $1.32 million mortgage on their property (the information is also available on the Recorder’s Office website). That means their down payment was $330,000 ($1.65 million - $1.32 million). A venerable institution like the Northern Trust, which lent the Obamas the money, would never have engaged in any of the risky practices that later caused the housing market crash. Therefore, they would have applied a formula to determine what the Obamas could afford to pay for their home, based primarily on the size of the down payment. Apparently, the magic number turned out to be $1.65 million.

But let's look at Obama's financial situation in 2005, when he made the purchase. He had just been elected to the US senate, a gig which pays $169,300, not counting meal and gas money. His wife was also pulling down six figures at the Univ. of Chicago Health Center (in 2006, she made $273,618, quite a bit more than her husband's government salary). Together, then, the Obamas were making over $400k just in wages -- and that doesn't count investment income or the royalties that Obama was getting for his best-selling first book or the $1.69 million deal he made for his second. In total, the Obamas earned just a shade less than $1 million in 2006, which is probably close to what they earned in 2005. So, with that sort of income, would a bank have loaned the Obamas enough to buy a $2.575 million double-lot? Well, according to Kay, not some high-class outfit like the Northern Trust Bank, although the Obamas somehow managed to get the Northern Trust to issue them a mortgage for the purchase of a $1.65 million home. Those darned banks, they can be so picky.

So, what can we conclude from this? Well, first of all, it's clear that Kay doesn't know what the hell she's talking about. It's not just that she doesn't understand the fundamental basics of real estate, it's that her account leaves one with the inevitable sense that she has never actually seen a house. Furthermore, her quaint notions about what determines the value of a piece of property are positively physiocratic. She evidently has never heard of things like "market price" or "supply and demand." Truly, Adam Smith lived and died in vain.

It is small wonder that Kay would convince a simpleton like okie. That's not setting the bar very high. After all, I wouldn't be surprised if okie is, at this moment, trying desperately to free himself from some Chinese finger cuffs. If Kay wants to sway less vacant and malleable minds, however, I'm afraid she'll have to do a much better job.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 10:52 am
@joefromchicago,
All of your tortured explanations do indicate one thing, you are in fact an Obama apologist, Joe, as I told you at the beginning of the house issue. I suggest we let the folks get back on topic. As George Bush likes to say, we can agree to disagree.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 11:31 am
@okie,
Now it's really fully 100% certain for me what e.g. joe wrote already earlier: "You really are that dumb, aren't you."
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 11:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Now now, Walter, are you, the gentleman on this forum, also going to resort to name calling? It thought you were better than that.

Can any of you liberals bear the thought that somebody cannot agree with everything you think? Are you that arrogant? If anyone disagrees with you, it is due to them being stupid, dumb, ignorant, whatever, not because they simply evaluate the evidence differently.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 11:58 am
@okie,
But you, okie, really act in such a way that I can't question it, can't say "you aren't really that dumb ..." what I would have actually preferred to do.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 12:03 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
To tell you the truth, Walter, I have not thought you were dumb for having a totally different perspective on issues. In fact, Joe, I think he is probably a very smart person, but I do label him as an apologist for Obama, not because Joe is dumb, but because he is loyal to the guy he has chosen to vote for and follow.

I have actually thought you are pretty informed and smart, but you have a European perspective on politics and issues, that is your privilege, it doesn't make you dumb, and just because I disagree, it doesn't make me dumb. I do not evaluate Mr. Obama through the prism of loyalty, thats the difference. I do not give him any benefit of the doubt, not after what we know about the man. Nor do I give the Rezkos any benefit of the doubt, after all the guy is a convicted felon.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 12:16 pm
Documents from the Special Investigative Committee on impeachment can be found at this link:
http://www.ilga.gov/house/committees/reports.asp?CommitteeID=758&GA=95

(from the official website of the Illinois General Assembly)
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 03:45 pm
@okie,
Okie, What's the difference between the "name calling" and your "labels?"

What's the difference between calling someone dumb and calling someone an Obamalade or koolaid drinker?
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 04:17 pm
@Butrflynet,
Butrflynet wrote:

Okie, What's the difference between the "name calling" and your "labels?"

What's the difference between calling someone dumb and calling someone an Obamalade or koolaid drinker?
Well, I think a distinct difference. A koolaid drinker or Obamalade drinker I think describes a mindset, a mindset wherein someone swallows whatever their leader gives them without sufficiently questioning it. Any explanation, any statement, any opinion that Obama puts out, alot of his voters will accept it now without using common sense reasoning. They are very devoted followers. There is an extraordinary emotional attachment, which I think is more exaggerated than usual. For example, voting for the first black president is considered by many people as some kind of cathargic experience, more emotional than intellectually based.

If you can dredge up other terms I have used, and if I think they are over the top or inaccurate, I will apologize for them. I don't think Obamalade or koolaid drinker is that derogatory, it does not attack intelligence necessarily, and it is an opini0n of many Obama followers that I think validly describes the mindset. I try to keep my comments above board, but I do admit to being opinionated, but I won't apologize for that. I am sure I have not been perfect with all of my posts, far from it. I do realize my assuredness and definite opinions, more black and white, than shades of gray, that irritates alot of liberal minded people because they don't see the world that way these days.

If you want to compare my attitude about Bush, I have defended the man and his character consistently on this forum, but I have also criticized him numerous times on several issues. I think he is an honorable man that did what he thought was correct, but he made many mistakes. But that is far from being an evil man as the wild eyed left wants us to believe.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 04:25 pm
@okie,
okie, An evil man is anyone who takes the responsibility of president of the most powerful country in this world, then uses that power to start an illegal war based on WMDs, and eventually kills thousands of our own men and women in our military and some 100,000 innocent Iraqis unnecessarily. Being stupid is no excuse; he is still an evil man.
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 04:51 pm
@okie,
There's no need to look at any of your other posts. The evidence is right there in this last one.

Quote:
A koolaid drinker or Obamalade drinker I think describes a mindset, a mindset wherein someone swallows whatever their leader gives them without sufficiently questioning it. Any explanation, any statement, any opinion that Obama puts out, alot of his voters will accept it now without using common sense reasoning. They are very devoted followers. There is an extraordinary emotional attachment, which I think is more exaggerated than usual. For example, voting for the first black president is considered by many people as some kind of cathargic experience, more emotional than intellectually based.


Quote:
If you can dredge up other terms I have used, and if I think they are over the top or inaccurate, I will apologize for them. I don't think Obamalade or koolaid drinker is that derogatory, it does not attack intelligence necessarily, and it is an opini0n of many Obama followers that I think validly describes the mindset. I try to keep my comments above board, but I do admit to being opinionated, but I won't apologize for that. I am sure I have not been perfect with all of my posts, far from it. I do realize my assuredness and definite opinions, more black and white, than shades of gray, that irritates alot of liberal minded people because they don't see the world that way these days.


If it doesn't attack intelligence, then please explain the intent of your phrasing in the first paragraph?
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 06:12 pm
@Butrflynet,
Butrflynet, how many people described the election of Bush as some kind of cathargic experience, such an emotional time? Face it, electing Obama was highly emotionally based. There is a reason why the term, Messiah, became attached to Obama. It doesn't work if it doesn't have a strong element of truth. The man was elected with a much larger emotional component than probably any president I can recollect in my lifetime, except for the possible exception of JFK, but Obama's election is bigger emotionally than JFK in my opinion. Therefore, the reason people support Obama following the election is based upon emotional attachment rather than intellectual reasoning.

Does this mean the supporters are less intelligent? I did not say that. You be the judge. IQ wise, I don't think so at all, it is more a case of politics now being turned over to politically correct thinking. What more can we expect, after all that is what schools are pushing, and the news media analyzes stories based upon very shallow points of interest? The appeal is shallow and emotional.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2008 09:04 pm
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTg2NzI4MWVhY2I1OWQ3NTE5YmNhNGRiM2E3OGQxMTY=

" “Let me just cut you off, because I don’t want you to waste your question,” Obama told Tribune reporter John McCormick Tuesday, after McCormick attempted to ask whether Emanuel’s reportedly extensive communications with the Blagojevich administration on the Senate-seat question contradicted Obama’s earlier claims to be taking a hands-off approach to the issue. “I don’t want to get into the details at this point,” Obama answered."

I think the answer is an obvious yes, it does contradict Obama's earlier claim.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2008 06:39 am
@cicerone imposter,
okie, An evil man is anyone who takes the responsibility of president of the most powerful country in this world, then uses that power to start an illegal war based on lies and eventually kills thousands of our own men and women in our military and some 100,000,000 innocent Vietnamese unnecessarily. Being stupid is no excuse; he is still an evil man.

So, by changing only 2 words, I just used your own logic to call Kennedy and Johnson evil.

Would you agree that they were "evil" also?
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2008 09:19 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
As George Bush likes to say, we can agree to disagree.

OK, then you're wrong and I win!
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2008 09:20 am
@Butrflynet,
Butrflynet wrote:

Okie, What's the difference between the "name calling" and your "labels?"

What's the difference between calling someone dumb and calling someone an Obamalade or koolaid drinker?

It's all very simple. When okie does it, it's OK.

Satisfied?
 

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