Mame
 
  4  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 06:41 pm
What if the Libs spent the next 7 weeks appointing a new leader (interim) and devising a new strategy and then came back to bat a stronger, more focussed party? That would work for me. As long as Bob Rae is not the leader, that is. I remember what he did to NDP Ontario.
hamburger
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 07:47 pm
@Mame,
imo it was the union's that killed bob's government .
the government was essentially broke and he suggested that government employees take 10 days of unpaid leave a year to try and keep the ontario finances from collapsing (the so called "rae days" ) .
the unions balked and bob rae and his government walked the plank .
i don't know if he is really a liberal now .
ome commentator said the liberals need another fighter - like chretien .
btw dion's problems are to some extent caused by his hearing loss . his hearing loss makes it difficult for him to hear his own voice and also handicaps is english - nice guys finish last , as they say .
hbg

RAE DAYS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Rae

Quote:
In April 1991, the government introduced a one-year program to protect the pay of workers whose firms had shut down due to the recession. Labour Minister Bob Mackenzie estimated that the plan would help 56,000 workers.[45]

The government changed its economic focus after 1991, and implemented budget cutbacks to control the province's mounting deficit. His government also brought in the Social Contract, austerity legislation which reopened collective bargaining agreements with the province's public sector unions. This legislation imposed a wage freeze and introduced what became known as "Rae days", giving civil servants (including teachers, doctors, nurses, etc.) ten days off without pay per year. These cutbacks led to a falling-out with both the public sector unions, most notably Ontario Public Service Employees Union (OPSEU), and the Canadian Auto Workers (CAW) and its leader Buzz Hargrove. Sid Ryan, Ontario President of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, referred to the Social Contract as the worst labour legislation he had ever seen.

This breach between the NDP and the labour movement struck at the party's foundations. The NDP was founded as an alliance between the old Cooperative Commonwealth Federation and the labour movement, and Rae's policy decisions alienated many traditional NDP voters. Thousands of members resigned from the party, and several unions turned against the NDP and vowed to defeat the government in the next election. The Rae government later attempted to regain labour support by passing Bill 40, a measure which (among other things) introduced anti-scab provisions to the province. This was not enough to bridge the gap with organized labour, however, and the party was unable to regain significant union support.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 08:58 pm
I liked, and like, Bob Rae.

I think anyone who even tries to take on Basil Hargrove deserves a lot of credit. He's more than a bit of a screamer. I think he's responsible for a lot of the mess with the auto industry - which has a fair bit to do with the overall mess in our economy.
0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  4  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 11:08 pm
I think the governer-general took the easy way out. It was a gutless, easiest way out decision by her, which no doubt, she was given "advice" for.

It's really time to do away with that position and the similar ones in each province. I would rather see some other independent body, not tied to the English monarchy, making decisions like was made today.

From what I understand, all this does is delay things? I assume there will be a non-confidence vote on 26 January 2009? We could still have another election, right? I just hope that Harper does not get the majority that he so desperately wants.

As for this coalition stuff, it seems the Liberal knives are out for Dion and it's probably all going to fall apart.
Intrepid
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 05:39 am
@Reyn,
Hi Reyn. Nice to see you come into the political arena.

Who do you propose should make such decisions? What independent body?

Would you rather have the country run by a coalition headed by a man that the polls show is only wanted by 5% of Canadians? Someone who was soundly beaten in the recent election?

Why do you hate the Monarchy?

Do you think that she was, perhaps, trying to save the country the expense of another election just 2 months after the last one?

The only thing that I actually agree with you on here is that I hope that Harper loses even more seats in the event of an election. Obviously, Dion has to be replaced before the Liberals will get any credibility.

Joeblow
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 08:18 am
I’ve always considered Bob Rae a man of intelligence and integrity. His social contract doomed him though…a colossal tactical error, and I don’t know if he can overcome that baggage, though I personally believe he learned from it and is more than capable of making the hard decisions, now. There were other issues that didn’t sit with me, but many more that I applauded, and in all, I think he’s a decent man (I consider that high praise). He’s a Rhodes scholar " no slouch. He’d be a definite contender for my vote.

Stephane Dion got a raw shake I think, but so it goes, and so must he ASAP.

0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 10:43 am
@Intrepid,
Hey, 'trep', enjoy my appearance in politics while it lasts. Laughing The only reason I'm here is because it's a Canadian topic, an extreme rarity. I'll respond to your points in the same order you've brought them up.

I haven't put a lot of thought into the independent body thing, but I'm sure we can come up with something. Perhaps something along the lines of an ombudsman. Names to be put forth and voted on by the people. Definitely not appointed, like the senate!

I'm not a fan of Dion. I think Rae or Ignatieff would be the better leader for this coalition (and for the Liberal party), although I'd prefer Layton (I'm an NDPer) be given a chance.

The problem with Dion is that he appears to be weak and indecisive. He does not come across strongly when he makes speeches on TV. If I were him, I would have gotten some public speaking lessons, so he sounds better in English. Appearance can be everything in politics.

I don't hate the monarchy, but I think they've become irrelevant for Canada, seeing that we have had our own constitution for some time now. I would prefer to sever all ties in that regard, and go with the independent body idea (let's trade some ideas on that point). The monarchy had it's day, but it's time to say goodbye. I would like a replacement that's truly "made in Canada".

As for the g-g trying to save Canadians money, that would be a bit naive, I think. I think Harper twisted her arm until she said 'uncle', and said, "Okay, okay, anything to get rid of you!" Laughing In all fairness though, I tend to be rather cynical with all things political, and I do think she was talked into the decision.

Here's my take on the sequence of events that will lead up to and happen after Jan 26th:

Harper will make good to let the opposition parties have some say in the upcoming budget (because he was surprised by the coalition idea by the other parties and it may have come off), enough so they will say "never mind then". This coalition idea will all blow over, like it never happened. There won't be an election. There won't be a vote of non-confidence. The budget will pass. Life will carry on. At least until the next bit of nonsense.

The end.
Tai Chi
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 10:55 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

if harper and a few selected cabinet members, baird for one, were to commit some sort of ritual suicide on the steps of parliament, i'd be willing to let the whole thing go


Me too. I'm pretty easy to get along with.
0 Replies
 
Tai Chi
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 10:58 am
@hamburger,
hamburger wrote:
i place the blame for the whole fiasko with canada's outmoded "first-past-the-post" system .
most of today's modern countries - especially im europe - have more representative systems . no wonder many canadians don't vote since they believe that the current election system gives their vote scant chance - unless they vote pc or liberal or they live in quebec .
since the current system favours the pc's and the lib's there isn't much of a chance that we'll see the system changed .
hbg


Absolutely! I voted to at least explore the option of proportional representation back in 2006. I'm sick to death of strategic voting.
0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 11:11 am
What I really want to know at this point is this:

Why the heck isn't this topic showing under the "Featured Topics" column, now that it's at +9 (at this point)? Shouldn't it have pushed out some of the lowered numbered threads?

Anybody have an explanation for this?
Tai Chi
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 11:13 am
Steady on, Reyn! We're supposed to be "polite" Canajuns. Maybe if we ask nicely? Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 11:31 am
@Reyn,
I just went through the thread and voted for everybody's posts (except my own, of course). Will that help?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 11:33 am
That didn't seem to do anything, so i just voted for the whole damned thread . . . does that help?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 11:34 am
It won't let me vote for the thread--it keeps resetting it to nine. Oh well . . .
Intrepid
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 11:44 am
@Setanta,
I guess Canadian politics can never be a 10 on an American site. Laughing Laughing Laughing
George
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 12:42 pm
@Intrepid,
Yes it can.
Intrepid
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 12:44 pm
@George,
Aha Very Happy
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 03:14 pm
Quote:
Parliament returns on Jan. 26


that's a long time in politics , i believe .
ontario's manufcturing industry is already suffering , and no one knows yet what will happen to the automotive sector .
oil is falling to the $40 a barrel level - drilling for oil in alberta has plummeted - oilsands projects on hold (norway's statsoil has just announced that it will not be converting further oilsands to refined oil but will try to sell it as "bitumen" ) . that means a $12 billion project has been stopped !

see link : http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081204.wstatoilstaff1204/BNStory/energy/home

VALE INCO is cutting back nickel production in sudbury - closing down "copper cliff south" for "indeterminate" period of time .

see link : http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081204.wvaleincostaff1204/BNStory/energy/home

and down it goes ... ...

i'm certainly NOT a pessimist but the outlook for canada is not exactly rosy .
since we've gone through difficult times in our 52 years in canada and canada has always been able to stay afloat , i do hope that we'll all come through this "downturn" in one piece .

as to who might form the best government at this time , i'm not even willing to guess - there are simply too many uncertainties .
i do think however that canada should provide a "safetynet" for all individuals who are in need of help - i think that's part of "being a canadian" - some might call it creeping socialism - i call it "the canadian way" .
hbg


ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 05:32 pm
@Reyn,
Reyn wrote:
Here's my take on the sequence of events that will lead up to and happen after Jan 26th


this means Lurlene still gets to be the wife of the Canajun prime minister at Obama's big party, right? pffffffffft
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 08:29 pm
@hamburger,
I'm not sure "all" will survive this in "one piece," but things don't look too good from where I sit.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

The Canada Thread - Discussion by Ceili
Happy Canada Day - Discussion by Ceili
Canada: the English & the French ... - Discussion by msolga
NO CONFIDENCE AND DISSOLUTION . . . - Discussion by Setanta
Canadian elections? - Discussion by nimh
It's Canada Day...? Eh? - Question by tsarstepan
Who Wins Todays Canadian Election? - Discussion by hawkeye10
FORD GETS THE BOOT . . . - Discussion by Setanta
Happy Thanksgiving to our Canucks! - Question by Butrflynet
 
Copyright © 2022 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 12/07/2022 at 08:39:00