Setanta
 
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 07:38 am
Hey, Canajuns, whaddaya think?

Have the Tories shot themselves in the foot with their "financial adjustment?" Is Harper's government headed for the toilet? Can the Liberals and the New Democrats form a new government? What would they have to "pay" the Bloc to support them?

What do you think, Girls and Guys?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 8 • Views: 10,020 • Replies: 182

 
Mame
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 08:30 am
@Setanta,
Will the Bloc get a Cabinet position? How funny is that? A separatist helping run the govt.

Another funny thing is that Dion will be heading it (so far as I know) yet his own party wants him out.

Politics makes strange bedfellows.
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 08:38 am
bring the bastards down, drag the bodies through the streets and mount a few heads on poles outside the parliament buildings


0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 08:57 am
@Mame,
Yes, the question of who would be the PM is an interesting one. Personally, i feel that Dion, a disaster at campaigning, would make a reasonably decent PM. But i have also heard that Ignatieff might get tapped for the position.

Certainly, if a Liberal-New Democrat coalition formed, they couldn't govern without the Bloc. Could they govern with the Bloc, but without giving them any cabinet portfolios? I doubt it.

**********************************

Come on, Dj . . . open up and tell us how you really feel.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 09:04 am
give the bloc a cultural cabinet position, really twist the knife, harper screwed up in quebec the last election by disparaging arts and culture

i think a coalition could work, it's really the only solution, and election would be too costly, i fear the conservatives would get a majority in a new election, the average canadian would be pissed off at having to go to the polls so soon and would blame the libs, NDP and bloc, the liberals have no real leader, the conservatives have a strong base and lot's of money, the mud would be slung for sure

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 09:10 am
Good point about how the Tories might fare in a new election. CBC just had brief comments on the possibility of coalition, including who would be leader. Some say that Dion claims the right to be PM, because he claims to have brokered the coalition talks. Other liberals are saying it's certain that it would be Ignatieff. They then quoted Bob Rae as saying that nothing is settled, and that discussions are still going on in the caucus. (The caucus? Just the liberals, or a caucus of Liberals and New Democrats? What about the Bloc . . . are they catering the event?)
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 09:14 am
the question of leader is a tough one, until the libs hold a leadership convention, dion is still party head, it seems that layton wants deputy prime minister status


0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 09:18 am
Make Layton PM, and Dion can be Minister for Holding the Bloc's Collective Hand While Making Soothing Noises.
0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  5  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 09:45 am
I would love to see Prime Minister Layton (I'm an NDPer), but it would probably be the fellow you mentioned.

I am getting sick of the millions of dollars spent on federal elections and the results aren't vastly different. If this latest business sent us to the polls again, there's going to be steam coming out of my ears!

Do I think a coalition would work? If it just were the NDP and Liberals, I would say 'yes', but with the Bloc wild card, I'm not too sure. My question would be: What would they have to promise the Bloc in order to get their support?

The whole idea of a separatist federal party is ludicrious. They should have no role in running the country. We cajouled Quebec for long enough, and I don't want to see any more concessions that the rest of the country have to pay for.
Tai Chi
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 10:26 am
I am violently opposed to another election, not only because of the outrageous waste of money (especially in these economic times) but because voter backlash would almost certainly lead to a Harris majority (something I think he is counting on as he pokes the other parties with a stick). Oh wait, did I say Harris? I meant Harper. Must be the depressing familiarity of his present cabinet that has me confused.

Funny -- the Mr. has a power point presentation this week on Proportional Representation in one of his courses. How timely is that? If the Liberals, NDP and Bloc can work together for the common good I say let them try. (djjd's idea of making the Bloc responsible for culture is excellent, if tongue-in-cheek.)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  5  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 10:36 am
@Reyn,
Quote:
What would they have to promise the Bloc in order to get their support?


Before Harper went on his wild ride, saying every vote would be a confidence vote, and forcing the Liberals to vote for his budget, he was pushed into a corner by the Bloc, who presented a list of non-negotiable demands. With Bloc support conditional on that agenda, Harper decided to push the Liberals into a corner, and then run an election campaign. I believe that his latest electoral success lead him into hubris, and that's why he finds himself in the situation he's in now, and he's backpeddling furiously--but it may be too late.

I have been unable to find a published list of their demands on-line, but i recall that they wanted an extension of income trusts for ten years, Canadian ratification of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, opposed dismantling the firearms registry and demanded Federal support for the Wheat Board. If anyone could come up with a list of the five demands they presented Harper, that could stand for a statement of the price for their participation in a coalition. The points i've mentioned above would not be offensive to the Liberals and the New Democrats, i believe.
0 Replies
 
Tai Chi
 
  6  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 10:41 am
Very funny comment on Rex Murphy's show yesterday re: Harper. Something along the lines of, "it's not uncommon for a politician to shoot himself in the foot. What's unusual is to watch him take careful aim".
Mame
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 10:45 am
@Tai Chi,
Ha ha, Tai Chi - that is good. While I often find Rex Murphy a bit pompous and irritating, he does come out with many pithy comments.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 11:10 am
Rex Murphy . . . that's Cross-country Check-up, right? I have always found that show interesting.

CBC is saying that the Liberals and the NDP have formalized their agreement, and that the New Democrats would get a quarter of the cabinet portfolios. Apparently, they are not offering the Bloc any ministry.
hamburger
 
  3  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 12:26 pm
@Setanta,
i suggested to my swimming buddies this morning that ONTARIO needs it's own party similar to the BLOC QUEBECOIS . that way ontario ontario would be king of the castle .

it's interesting to me that many quebecers - who may deep down be lib/ndp/cons - happily vote BQ (of course , they do not want to "separate" . they know that they can have their cake and eat it too - very smart , indeed !) . i believe they know that allows them to put the squeeze on any federal government - no matter which party .

many canadians don't seem to realize that the G.G. is under the constitution obliged to allow the opposition parties to form a government .
a/t constitutional experts , she would not be allowed to call for an election "in the first sesssion" of parliament unless the opposition parties do not come to an agreement .

stay tuned !
hbg
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  3  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 12:31 pm
@Setanta,
set wrote :

Quote:
Apparently, they are not offering the Bloc any ministry.


i wonder if the bloc is really interested in having a minister in ottawa .
by not having a minister in ottawa , they can't be blamed for any screwups . yet they can demand - and will likely get - plenty of "rewards" for quebec .
getting their cake etc.
hbg
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 04:25 pm
@hamburger,
I just listened to part of the news conference on my drive home - after a CBC interview with Gerard Kennedy.

This sounds like it could work.

Liberal PM, Liberal finance minister, NDP 6 of 24 cabinet seats, Bloq has declined cabinet seating.

The agreement overall is to run to June 2011, with the Bloq signing on til June 2010 with an option to extend the agreement for another year.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 05:03 pm
or is the agreement to 2012?

I guess it's a good thing that I pay more attention to the road than the radio while I'm driving.

Apparently they signed the agreement about an hour ago.
0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 09:32 pm
The last time there was a change of government without an election was in 1926!

Quote:
That first opportunity is set to arrive next Monday with a confidence vote in the House of Commons - unless Stephen Harper's minority government manages a last-minute tactical manoeuvre.

The Conservatives hinted that something might be in the works, saying they are considering "all options" to stop the opposition.

The Governor General is on a state visit to Europe, but a spokeswoman said she is following the events closely and is ready to return if needed.

Should Harper's government be defeated - and should Jean accept a coalition agreement - Canada would see its first change of government without an election since 1926.


link to rest of article here
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 11:07 am
taking a page out of PBP's book

the prime minister and the governor general can both go **** themselves

he's a coward and she's an anachronism



0 Replies
 
 

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