why is it bad to talk bad about your previous employers?

So, Og, what have we learned from this to guide our future conduct, eh?

to lie quite simply.

it works rather well.

remember the guy who cheated to get into the red cross?

i mean lying brings up so many possibilities.

Like this one where you apply at several VEry high paying jobs, work for the first two days when they dont expect you to be doing anything, just settling in, and then calll in and say your grandmother died, i need 3 days off,a nd on those 3 days do it to another company, and so forth..

and in the end they have to pay you still, even when they find you incompetent.


is that the lesson i should have learned?

jk

Not exactly, but I sense some progress of some sort.

As someone who has conducted a whole lot of interviews, I can tell you that I am never impressed by an applicant who slams his or her former employer - not because I'm concerned about what they might say about me in the future but because it comes across as whiny and classless.

If you need to explain why you are leaving or have left a prior employer, stick to vague knocks like:

"I don't/didn't agree with the direction in which the company is moving."

"I don't feel that my skills and talents were being used to our mutual benefit."

"I don't believe there is a sufficent opportunity for development and advancement."

Even if the interviewer invites you to dis your prior employer, don't do it. Sometimes it's a trap, and it still seems whiny and classless even if it's not.

Of course if you're applying for a dishwasher's job, the above suggested response are not going to be of much help.

You may consider it "social bs," but companies usually like to be represented by people with at least modest social skills, and trashing others in a business setting doesn't fit the bill.

There is a such thing called diplomacy.
That's a fine lesson to learn, as well.

Never say anything bad about a previous employer during a job interview. That is rule number one and it's ironclad. Get this into your head, O.G. -- never, ever, under any circumstances bad-mouth a previous employer during a job interview.! It's the kiss of death.

I remember a job interview where I was asked, "So why do you want to leave XYZ and work here?"

I said: "Oh, I love working at XYZ. But I think I've gone as far as I can go with them. I'm looking for the kinds of opportunities your shop seems to ofer. Heard a lot of good things about you."

Was I lying? That's completely irrelevant. I got the job.

Notice what I did: I turned the tables on the questioner. Instead of saying bad things about XYZ (which she probably expected) I said good things about her company, which flattered her.

**** society is ******* retarded, where truth is shunned in favor of fantasy.


i got to get over this truth trip.

"what were your managers like?"

"******* morons, thats why im trying to get the **** out"

whats wrong with the truth? because truth hurts, duh. ive known that all along, shulda clicked in earlier...

Of course there is the "truth" of the employers opinions about you.

Put yourself in the prospective employer's shoes. Why would anyone want to hire you once they know that you're the kind who'll say nasty things about them after you've left their employ? It's not about lying. It's about making yourself look like a good prospect to hire.

not to mention that they might be thinking "geeze, this guy doesn't get along with anyone, does he.... " -- whether that is the truth or not... it's about making an impression. surely they will want to hire someone who does get along with people well. besides, there never are just the negatives...you'll do yourself a favor if you mention one or two positives before you explain, politely, why the previous job was not as good a match for you as this one you're applying to.

Haven't read all the other answers yet, but Ogi, this will get less and less cute as you get older. Or.. are you proposing this to get lucid reasons not to behave this way? I can't tell.

Doing cons as a way of being gets... unrewarding as a way of getting along.

Further, when you, Ogi, speak of truth in various threads, your takes tend to be victim oriented, but when one looks at victimization without looking with a clear of bias eye at the 'perps', one can be driven into a load of misplaced inchoate rage.

Or not.. maybe the complainer is correct in some/many instances. I could go on about some of those (see Salgado photos on goldminers).

I stopped lying at all when I was about 23 or 24. I think it's destructive and eats away at you. Not that I'm never some kind of mess - just that whatever my behavior, it's not a con.


You seem attracted to cons... and that might be that cons are all you see as a way to swim out of a mess.

It doesn't always follow that the past employer is bad. In fact, I'd say much of the time it says more about the applicant than the past employer.

I do inital screening of all applicants for my region of all people forwarded to me by our in-house recruiting department. I only set up group interview for a little less than 45% of the people I actually call (to start with, I don't even call 25% to 30% of the people I get sent, so that 45% really represents a third of all the profiles emailed to me.)

Almost without exception, when someone bad mouths their former employer, it's really about something they did, or did not do.

Believe it or not, as blunt as I am here, I can really be suavecito about getting to the bottom of a story during my screening, which takes anywhere from 2 minutes to a half an hour, depending entirely on the other person (as you can guess, the 2 minute wonders don't impress me. Fortunately, they are rare.)

When I'm listening to someone tell me how bad their old employer was, or when I'm picking up on any number of things that make me narrow my eyes a little, I'll start by asking why they left or are considering leaving that place, and if they give me some bs answer they read in a "how to" article, my eyes roll back in my head. I'll ask "Well, why would THEY say you left"?

Then I just don't say a word and let them dig their own hole. If you don't talk, they'll just keep going and going and going...

Uh...well, they wrote me up....for fill in the blank (you don't get termed for being late once, and you don't quit your job over once...read - you got shitcanned because never showed up on time. Or did you get written up for something really serious, which would be a cause for termination)

They didn't appreciate all the extra work I did...(ever hear of "other duties as assigned"?)

I wasn't paid enough (so, you're leaving your job solely for more money? what will you do if you get a better offer from someone else after you come to us?) I could go on...


Play along with me for a minute ogio, let's say you did come out and say "Because my bosses were a-holes"

I'd like you to answer the question, as pertains to your current specific situation... Why do you say that? as in, what do they do that makes them an asshole?

Seriously, I won't cut you down, I like you very much. I want to see you answer. I will give my opinion of what an interviewer thinks when he hears your answer.

Sometimes hearing other people say what you should do or say doesn't help much, because you situation is unique to yourself.

BTW, you don't have to lie and tell someone everything was peachy when it really wasn't. I can't think of a specific right now, but I've been really impressed in the past by some answers that were able to convey the situation without making anyone loose face.

Not sure how you are going to react to all of this advice Ogi, but it's consistent---repetitive even

It may be the advice of a bunch of sellouts, but it's good advice if you want to get and keep a decent job.

You don't have to follow the advice, but don't complain if you don't get a job. The rules are pretty clear and only someone with an impulse problem cannot follow them

Of course if you have a skill or talent that is very rare but in very high demand, you can probably make your own rules.

However, your skills will never be as rare nor the demand so high as it is early on.

At some point, the rules confront us all.

No disrespect intende but I don't get the impression you have rare talents that are in high demand. That being the case you only get to decide whether or not you will accept the rules in return for the attached rewards.

I think that most of us can argue that the rules are reasonable and that we are not sellouts, but that really doesn't matter for you.

You either accept the rationality of the rule or you do not. You'll hae an easier time of it if you do, but it's your call.

What you really need to ask yourself is how badly to yo want what playing by the rules can provide, and how important it is to you to play by your own rules.

You should be aware though that only a tiny percentage of true iconoclasts prosper in the sense of what that word means today.

The vast majority of true iconoclasts live below the mean.

Perceived comfort or perceived integrity.

Your call Bud.

From Finn,

Perceived comfort or perceived integrity.
Your call Bud.

I don't agree with that as a dictum. Might agree with it as a trendmaker.

By which I mean, things aren't always clear. Easy can breed comfort.
Yelling can bring surcease and be useless.

My hope for you, Ogi, is that you stop with the blanket assessments as mr. emotion, and start looking into real data. You may gain footing, or be shot down, either way, start looking harder.

Don't burn bridges.

Ogi

The advice you have received in this thread is consistent, if not repetitive.

It would not be ridiculous for you to assume we are all sellouts, even though I am certain each one of us would be happy to and capable of arguing the contrary.

It really doesn't matter in what position we or you place us. This is about you and what is important to you.

We have all conveyed to you the rules that are in play. I would hope you are smart enough to realize that so many diverse people telling you the same thing are probably right. Whether or not you should play by these rules is another story.

The reality is that the rules apply to the overwhelming majority of us. If you have very rare skills or talents that are very much in demand, you will be one of the rare (notice I didn't say lucky) few who get to make their own rules. Even then time will catch up to you and the rules will rule.

I intend no disrespect, but I do not get the impression that you are among the rare few.

What you need to ask yourself is what will make you happy: The comforts ( mental and physical ) following the rules can deliver, or the satisfaction of knowing that you have not allowed any rule to bind you in any way.

Very, very few true iconclasts live even above the mean, but perhaps that's OK with them.

Are you a true iconoclast or a poser who just wants to blame others for his own misteps?

Harsh perhaps but you need to come to your realization soon and move off your current hump --- play by the rules or stop expecting the rewards of the game.

Either works, but hiding in the in-between does not.

He'll burn them, given his attitude, for some time to come. So it goes.

I do not mean every one has to snuffle up. But walking encompassed by a blanket of rage isn't all that useful from any point of view.

Let's help the lad.