17
   

OK, EVIL WON. NOW HOW FAR DOWN IS BOTTOM ?

 
 
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2008 11:04 pm
OK, EVIL WON, FAIR & SQUARE.
NOW HOW FAR DOWN IS THE BOTTOM ?

SURVEILLANCE

As of now, surveillance seems to be limited and benign.

How many cameras on the citizens
will government say is enuf ?



The GOP was the conservative party of America,
allegedly more concerned with personal freedom, in fulfillment
of the limited government design of the Founders.

I don 't think personal freedom ranked very high with the Bushes,
not as well as it shoud have, being of the party of Barry Goldwater.

The Demos are less interested in liberty.
How far down is rock bottom ?

As of now, government is not ABLE
to turn us into the Borg; but for how long ?
WHEN will we begin to defend privacy and individualism ?

WHEN will technological improvements allow government
to increase its watch over us, to preserve itself for the better collective well being ?




WHEN do we or our grandchildren become the Borg ?
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2008 11:26 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
whackjob
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2008 11:29 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
The GOP was the conservative party of America,
allegedly more concerned with personal freedom, in fulfillment
of the limited government design of the Founders.

"Allegedly" being the operative word in that sentence, because if that's what the GOP is, then you sure can't tell from their actions over the last 8 years.

Rockhead
 
  3  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2008 11:31 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
funny you should mention surveillance, Dave...

(I doubt mr cheney is gonna hand over the goods, but ya never know...)
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2008 11:34 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:

if that's what the GOP is,
then you sure can't tell from their actions over the last 8 years.

Agreed.
Reagan 's choice of Bush was a fatal mistake.
I said so then. The Bushes were never conservatives.
Reagan selected Bush to balance off Reagan 's own conservatism.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 12:00 am
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/47563/thumbs/s-PANIC-large.jpg

some faith in america these folks have.
Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 03:34 am
http://www.motherjones.com/photos/kkk-child-in-robe.jpg

I'll tell you how far bottom is. Mississipi. That's where the real **** in the US ends up.
Check out 'Eva Braun', here - in any normal nation she'd, be out of a job.
http://www.motherjones.com/photos/aryan-outfitters/
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 05:21 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Dave, you seem to be bargaining the ouitcome here. Are you still full of rage at Obamas victory?

(Im just trying to analyze you viz a viz the Kubler Ross stages of grief).
Phoenix32890
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 06:24 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
The GOP was the conservative party of America,
allegedly more concerned with personal freedom, in fulfillment
of the limited government design of the Founders.


I have a question for the right wing conservatives. Why would a party, concerned with personal freedom and limited government, attempt to control a woman by denying her the right to choose whether she wants to abort a pregnancy? Why would they want to deny the same rights to same sex couples that heterosexual couples enjoy?

Either I am missing something, or something doesn't "compute"!
Confused
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 06:49 am
PHOENIX--Thats a cognitave disconnect that many conservatives have, they dont see that what they attempt to legislate on others is certainly not "personal freedom" but a sort of BORG mentality where only their values will be accepted. There is the major split between the conservatives and the progressives.

Their definition of "freedom of Religion" is valid with the proviso as "Freedom of Christian religions"

Teaching non science religious views in science classes is also considered a "freedom" in their minds.


We have serious dialogue to attempt especially when I see that the conservative beliefs are intractable in any public discourse.

Below viewing threshold (view)
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  0  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 08:09 am
@Phoenix32890,
personal freedom is for men bitch. go fix me and cjhsa a sandwich.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 08:14 am
@Phoenix32890,
It's not control if you are trying to make them think like you. That's just common sense. In a democracy if people don't think the way you do, then they should be forced to think that way.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 08:16 am
@cjhsa,
cjhsa wrote:


Not my country, not my president. Never surrender.


Since, it isn't your country, I guess that means you are illegally in the US.

As a conservative that opposes illegal aliens being in the US, shouldn't you be reporting to the INS to get deported?
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 08:22 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,
Quote:
personal freedom is for men bitch. go fix me and cjhsa a sandwich.


Keep talking like that bear, and I'll come over. When I am through, you will be able to sing the lead soprano role in "La Traviata"! Laughing Wink
kuvasz
 
  0  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 08:23 am
@cjhsa,
grow up.

we are at war only in your pitiful mind.
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  0  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 08:43 am
@Phoenix32890,
I love it when you get all butch.....
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 09:07 am
@Mr Stillwater,
I don 't wish to start discussing the KKK.
That 's a topic of its own.

If u wish to post a historical thread about it,
I 'll join u and participate; I love history,
but neither the KKK nor anyone else offers
a viable alternative to the end of free America,
meaning where personal liberty is taken seriously.
Domestic government power and personal liberty are inversely proportional.

From Karl Marx 's point of vu: happy days are here again !

(that 's nice fotografy, tho !)
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 09:09 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

cjhsa wrote:


Not my country, not my president. Never surrender.


Since, it isn't your country, I guess that means you are illegally in the US.

As a conservative that opposes illegal aliens being in the US, shouldn't you be reporting to the INS to get deported?


No, I am quite legally in the USA. You on the other hand, now live in the USSA. Remember, I am everywhere.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 10:38 am
@Phoenix32890,
Quote:

I have a question for the right wing conservatives.
Why would a party, concerned with personal freedom and limited government,
attempt to control a woman by denying her the right to choose
whether she wants to abort a pregnancy? Why would they want
to deny the same rights to same sex couples that heterosexual couples enjoy
?

I MUST agree with u, Phoenix.
My answer to how this came about involves the political
and ideological history of the situation.

Let me begin by taking notice that the Founders were NOT
theocrats; thay gave us a secular republic.

Therefore, being CONSERVATIVE, or non-deviant orthodox
Original Intendment Americans does NOT mean being theocratic.
Historically, that is not conservative.

If the Founding Generation had WANTED to create a theocracy,
thay coud have and woud have DONE it.
Instead, thay explicitly separated church and state,
and protected religious freedom of choice.


During the Third World War, from 1945 to 1991,
there was an ideological split in the polity between those who
strove with every iota of our being against our communist enemies,
on one side, and those who did not see the communists as being all that bad
to get excited about; thay were our allies against the nazis,
after all (beginning when Hitler invaded Russia June 22, 1941).

Many of us were unsure whether freedom or the commies woud win.
Among those on the side of defeating the commies
(as distinct from those who were soft on communism, or who favored it,
like my next door neighbor Comrade Murray,
who loved to praise his Comrade Stalin every summer night in the 1940s n early 50s)
were people who were very cognizant of the atheist
nature of the enemy, and referred to it ofen.

Both before and after 1991, those folks really seemed to like babies A LOT
and were very, very offended and grossed out by abortions.
(I felt the opposite way, as u do, Phoenix, qua personal sovereignty and somatic autonomy.
Indeed, in my childhood [long before Roe v. Wade]
I was shocked and appalled to discover that abortion was illegal.)

Anyway, the anti-commie, anti-socialist coalition included
these folks to whom theology was of very immediate concern.
It was a coalition, which means of joining of different groups
toward a commonly sought goal, in this case re-establishing
the freedom of laissez faire free enterprize.
Members of a coalition cannot reasonably expect other members
thereof to see everything their own way; if thay do,
then that coalition will not be viable, and it will end.
Either thay will get along, or thay will not, and abandon it.

The purpose of a political party is to WIN, not to lose,
unless u just wanna make a statement, and leave it at that.

We knew and still know, that if we threw out the folks who
allege that thay are "conservative" in their semi-theocratic motives,
then we 'd be so badly depleted and debilitated as to make success very unlikely.
In other words, it woud be handing victory to the collectivist -
authoritarians (thereby throwing our own freedom in the garbage).
Therefore, we endeavor to avoid a split, and keep a not-too-happy
marriage together, for the sake of its fruit: the political power
to defend personal freedom.

If u 'd like further elucidation, please lemme know.
 

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