60
   

California Voters Approve Gay-Marriage Ban

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 07:45 pm
Rex I am not sure if you seen this but it seems that many have.

RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 08:04 pm
@reasoning logic,
I had not seen that but I could find not fault in his logic... Thanks for sharing RL Smile

Religion is a prison... they eat at chick-fil-a because it is a cry for help...
Atom Blitzer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 08:37 pm
@RexRed,
No religion is more like an idea.


A large number of studies have shown that religious involvement and spirituality are associated with better health outcomes such as coping skills, and fewer anxiety, and greater longevity.

Good luck "freeing" people from religion and putting them in the confines made purely of reason and logic.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 09:03 pm
@Atom Blitzer,
A large number have shown that atheists are more educated, less likely to be in prison and have lower divorce rates.

I won't hold much credence in either set of claims until I see some trustworthy census analysis.
Atom Blitzer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 09:14 pm
@hingehead,
Claims, blames. I don't give a crap. I'm just saying not everyone thinks the same way. There'll always be diversity.

I've talked to some atheists, and they can't even argue why they choose atheism. They are lazy bums who jumps a bandwagons, not even questioning their beliefs, and they simply don't care. So don't get high and mighty that atheist are "smarter" and more morally upholding than people who belong to a religion.

hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 09:27 pm
@Atom Blitzer,
Not the brightest light in the shop are you?

Hingehead wrote:
I won't hold much credence in either set of claims until I see some trustworthy census analysis.

Is that not clear to you that unsourced claims of superiority from either side of that debate hold no truck with me?

PS more educated doesn't mean smarter.

irony challenged religious Atom Blitzer wrote:
jumps a bandwagons, not even questioning their beliefs

That does seem to apply to a lot of theists.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 09:30 pm
@Atom Blitzer,
You wrote,
Quote:
A large number of studies have shown that religious involvement and spirituality are associated with better health outcomes such as coping skills, and fewer anxiety, and greater longevity.



Are you a social scientist with some background, or are you just spewing "personal opinion?"

I believe you're the latter with no clue about happiness and longevity.

Provide some credible source for your claims.
Atom Blitzer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 09:31 pm
@hingehead,
Exactly both parties do it. It's all part of the diversity. Cutting of one side of it because you personally don't like it is kinda like genocide. By the way Rexred put it, it sounded he wanted to put religious individuals out of their "misery"
Atom Blitzer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 09:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I don't need to be a scientist to be able to read the results.

Well here is your source.
http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0025-6196/PIIS0025619611627997.pdf

RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 09:36 pm
@Atom Blitzer,
Atom Blitzer wrote:

Claims, blames. I don't give a crap. I'm just saying not everyone thinks the same way. There'll always be diversity.

I've talked to some atheists, and they can't even argue why they choose atheism. They are lazy bums who jumps a bandwagons, not even questioning their beliefs, and they simply don't care. So don't get high and mighty that atheist are "smarter" and more morally upholding than people who belong to a religion.




People who are religiously inclined fall under the "sin consciousness" of their fantasy God's constant condemnation. They beat on their wives to bury their feelings of unworthiness, they make their kids lives miserable (by casting their gay children onto the streets) and preoccupy their lives trying to take the speck out of the eyes of others. They deny Jesus' teaching of grace and mercy for a literal hell raiser double standard while they act out in privacy their hypocritical carnal desires. All while they claim to be the epitome of the image of God. In them exalting themselves and looking down on others they actually lower themselves so they can no longer relate to an earth that birthed them, an animal kingdom that evolved them and fellow humans that are here to comfort and care for them. They become isolated while pretending to be outgoing.

The overtly religious resort to suicide and drug addictions to placate the missing contentedness to the world around them... They cry out to their God and get only silence in return while their mind crucifies them afresh daily.

http://www.hmdb.org/Photos2/203/Photo203259.jpg

A picture is worth a thousand words...

Is that the expression of your average atheist?

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 09:37 pm
@Atom Blitzer,
The title of that article is
Quote:
Religious Involvement, Spirituality, and Medicine: Implications for Clinical Practice


It doesn't say anything about better health or longevity vs other populations.

From Wiki on longest lifespans by country. US is number 38.
Here's the top ten.
Quote:
List by the United Nations (2005–2010)

Life expectancy at birth (years)[4]
Rank Country (State/territory) Overall Male Female
1 Japan 82.6 79.0 86.1
2 Hong Kong 82.2 79.4 85.1
3 Switzerland 82.1 80.0 84.2
4 Israel 82.0 80.0 84.0
5 Iceland 81.8 80.2 83.3
6 Australia 81.2 78.9 83.6
7 Singapore 81.0 79.0 83.0
8 Spain 80.9 77.7 84.2
8 Sweden 80.9 78.7 83.0
10 Macau 80.7 78.5 82.8


On happiest people by country.
Quote:
World Happiness Report 2012: Scandinavian Countries Are Happiest On Earth (SLIDESHOW)
Posted: 04/ 6/2012 4:10 pm Updated: 04/ 6/2012 6:49 pm

FOLLOW: Columbia, Earth Institute, Denmark, Finland, Global Economy, Netherlands, Norway, Scandinavia, World Happiness Report, World's Happiest Country, World News

Denmark has taken the top spot on the United Nation's first ever World Happiness Report, followed by Finland, Norway and the Netherlands.


The 158-page report, published by Columbia University's Earth Institute, was commissioned for the United Nations Conference on Happiness on Monday in order to "review the state of happiness in the world today and show how the new science of happiness explains personal and national variations in happiness."

The rankings in the report were based on a number called the "life evaluation score," a measurement which takes into account a variety of factors including people's health, family and job security as well as social factors like political freedom and government corruption. It also looks at measurements from previous reports on happiness from the Gallup World Poll (GWP), the World Values Survey (WVS), the European Values Survey (EVS), and the European Social Survey (ESS).


It doesn't say anything about "religion."
Atom Blitzer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 09:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This is a secondary research, so a summary.
Why don't you go to references and hunt down primary research and see the pop. group and other statistical factors.
at least look at all the pages before you comment on it.
0 Replies
 
Atom Blitzer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 09:56 pm
@cicerone imposter,
See what you want to see. I don't like to argue with someone who sees it with a one sided perspective.

Food for thought: If religion isn't useful, why hasn't it become extinct?
I don't see religion going extinct anytime soon.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 09:56 pm
@Atom Blitzer,
All I was commenting on your unsourced claim by juxtaposing it with other unsourced claims. I didn't give any thought to what you were responding to.

Thanks for the 12 year old article that reports on an American metasurvey of American studies that says religious people who receive chaplaincy support live longer than religious people who don't (vague flippancy) but even they say the majority of surveys support their conclusions, but they don't say how much of a majority, or whether the surveys were weighted for methodology, sample size etc.

If that's your proof I'm still not convinced - but I will hold out until 21st August when the Australian Bureau of Statistics release the data for basic table builder
http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/censushome.nsf/home/tablebuilder?opendocument&navpos=240

When I can use 2011 CENSUS data to see linkages about Religiosity and other socio economic factors rather than a few hundred tiny sample surveys between 12 and 40 years old.

And I won't be making assumptions about causality or correlation.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 10:00 pm
@Atom Blitzer,
PS

Your article is from the Mayo Clinic.

Know much about them?

Source: http://www.americancatholic.org/messenger/oct2006/Feature2.asp

Mayo Clinic: The Franciscan Connection
By Marion Amberg
This internationally famous medical clinic started with three talented Protestant doctors and one very determined Franciscan sister.
Q U I C K S C A N

Reaffirming Its Roots
Imparting the Vision
Spiritual Lessons
Continuing the Legacy
A Legendary Work of Mercy
Sisters of Saint Francis of Rochester
Atom Blitzer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 10:04 pm
@hingehead,
What I see is a correlation of "hope" with being able 2 recover.
It seems that religious people have more hope than the logical thinkers who give up hope due to statistical likelihoods and stuff like that.
I'd imagine if atheist patients got the counselors who gave them a more pronounced message of hope, and that they'll make through it, similar to the function of chaplains, I'd imagine the results would be similar.

Some psychological phenomenon, but I'm nowhere knowledgeable to see the connection of thoughts and the effects that it has on the body much less give an explanation of the phenomenon, such as happy positive people that generally tend to lead healthy lives.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 10:08 pm
@Atom Blitzer,
Yeah, I'd go along with that. It might even be a little Hawthorne Effect - you know, that people feel, and perform, better if anyone pays any attention at all to them.

0 Replies
 
Atom Blitzer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 10:12 pm
@hingehead,
Post: # 5,073,121

Again I should say this is a secondary research. All the primary research is from 90's that are conducted and recorded in different journals. So it's not purely a loaded paper. Just observing a correlation, yet outdated.
No matter, interesting
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 10:24 pm
@Atom Blitzer,
I see what I see from understanding universal truths that can be supported by universal studies - not limited to one religion.

Not all people of religion have the same genes or environment; how does one measure "faith?"

According to human history, past and present, religions have been responsible for the worst of atrocities perpetrated against others. That's a fact.

Happiness and longevitiy are not based on religious beliefs; that's supported by the fact that as a country, Japan has the longest life span, and it's not based on their religion.

Denmark has been shown to be the happiest, and theirs is a sectarian country. The article I posted above shows how they measure "happiness."
Religion is not even on the list.





Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Aug, 2012 10:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I see what I see from understanding universal truths that can be supported by universal studies - not limited to one religion.

You bodhisattva you. Who else among us (on A2K) can comprehend universal truths?

Not all people of religion have the same genes or environment; how does one measure "faith?"

According to human history, past and present, religions have been responsible for the worst of atrocities perpetrated against others. That's a fact.

Really? Apparently you have ignored in your calculations the atrocities and murders carried out by utterly anti-religion fellows like Mao, Lenin, Stalin and Pol Pot...to name but a few.

Happiness and longevity are not based on religious beliefs; that's supported by the fact that as a country, Japan has the longest life span, and it's not based on their religion.

And you know that the "fact" is that Japan's longevity has nothing to do with religion? How, may I ask?

In any case you have conviently dismissed "happiness" in your assertion. Japanese may (pr may not) live linger than the rest of us (no matter what the reason) but do they live log lives of greater happines than the rest of us?


Denmark has been shown to be the happiest, and theirs is a sectarian country. The article I posted above shows how they measure "happiness."
Religion is not even on the list.

Religion may be a soporhistic but you have ignored the many recent American studies that show that the "religious" are more happy than non-religious.

I've no problem with an argument that religion may be the equivalent of opium, but at least such an argument acknowledges that religion makes people happy.

You, for entirely childish reasons, have determined that religion is bad, and so you are compelled to offer false evidence that religion, despite what the majority of experts contend, doesn't promote happiness.




0 Replies
 
 

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