4
   

What conservatives should know about Americans.

 
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 11:11 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Ah, so in Brandon-speak, I can say "you lose".

Excellent.

A fair claim, but can you back it up?

I never claimed to support any group particularly, other than conservatives in general. I have stated that I believe in much of the traditional conservative agenda, and most peole know what that means. I have given two examples. I am under no obligation to identify groups I have never claimed to support, nor to enumerate for you each and every one of my beliefs. You are doing what liberals always do, and trying to derail an argument with technical objections, because you fear a simple, objective, head-on discussion of the underlying issues.

What is it that you find inadequate in my original claim to agree with most of the traditional conservative agenda?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 11:18 am
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
Well, most people are familiar with the typical conservative platform. I agree with most of it. For example, I believe that the decision to invade Iraq was correct given the information possessed when it was made. I also believe in small government.


This seems like an awfully moderate position. A candidate who ran on the Iraq war and smaller government would certainly be in the mainstream. Had this candidate been named McCain, he very well be leading in the polls right now (sadly the candidate named McCain chose another path).

What you hear from the conservative movement today is not this.

What you hear now is attacks, division and hard line positions not shared by the majority of Americans.

Let me give a good example from my own experience. The National Council of La Raza (NCLR) is a mainstream organization. It is slightly to the left (not much) and is politically moderate. It focuses on economic issues, housing, education and immigration issues.

Because of the NCLR is widely respected in the Hispanic community.

The conservatives launch pretty nasty attacks on Hispanic institutions, including this organization. The Republican party is paying, particularly in Southwestern states.

When you attack people was "non-American" who get to vote, you pay in the polls. New Mexico, Florida and Colorado are states where the Hispanic vote will make a big difference (and don't be surprised if Arizona (yes Arizona) goes for Obama).

The funny thing is that McCain should have been able to earn much of the Hispanic vote. The fact that he decided to tie his boat to the conservative movement pretty much sank that prospect.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 11:23 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Quote:
Well, most people are familiar with the typical conservative platform. I agree with most of it. For example, I believe that the decision to invade Iraq was correct given the information possessed when it was made. I also believe in small government.


This seems like an awfully moderate position. A candidate who ran on the Iraq war and smaller government would certainly be in the mainstream. Had this candidate been named McCain, he very well be leading in the polls right now (sadly the candidate named McCain chose another path).

What you hear from the conservative movement today is not this.

What you hear now is attacks, division and hard line positions not shared by the majority of Americans.

Let me give a good example from my own experience. The National Council of La Raza (NCLR) is a mainstream organization. It is slightly to the left (not much) and is politically moderate. It focuses on economic issues, housing, education and immigration issues.

Because of the NCLR is widely respected in the Hispanic community.

The conservatives launch pretty nasty attacks on Hispanic institutions, including this organization. The Republican party is paying, particularly in Southwestern states.

When you attack people was "non-American" who get to vote, you pay in the polls. New Mexico, Florida and Colorado are states where the Hispanic vote will make a big difference (and don't be surprised if Arizona (yes Arizona) goes for Obama).

The funny thing is that McCain should have been able to earn much of the Hispanic vote. The fact that he decided to tie his boat to the conservative movement pretty much sank that prospect.


I presume we are talking about legal votes, and not the votes of non-citizens. Actually, I agree with you. I don't like the way the McCain campaign has been run, and I would have chosen to simply discuss the real issues, since I think we can win on those. I may, from time to time, talk about one of the personal non-issues, just to sit back and watch the sparks, but, actually, were I running his campaign, I would have concentrated on the real issues, because I think we could win on them. That isn't to say that something personal about a candidate can never be relevant, just not usually. On the other side, I actualy do think it was telling, if it has been reported accurately, that his wife referred to being proud of America for the first time in her life.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 11:40 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
I presume we are talking about legal votes, and not the votes of non-citizens.

Er... Non-citizens don't get to vote. You know this, right?
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 11:46 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
I presume we are talking about legal votes, and not the votes of non-citizens.

Er... Non-citizens don't get to vote. You know this, right?
It's true I'm a citizen of New Mexico but I plan on voting anyway.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 01:23 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
2) Most Americans don't care about Ayers, Wright, or Khalidi. We think that the assertion that Obama is somehow subversive, or socialist are ridiculous and mean.

This whole line of argument is irrelevant (and annoying). We think that only idiots or partisans would make an issue of this.

As demonstrated in polling today:

Quote:
WaPo-ABC Track: I'm Rubber, You're Glue

Half of all voters think John McCain has gone too far in criticizing Barack Obama, while most think Obama has been measured in his return volleys. [..]

Q: In terms of criticizing Obama, do you think McCain has gone too far, not far enough, or handled it about right?

http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=bhs&chco=82926b&chs=225x150&chd=t:50,32,16,2&chxt=x,y&chxl=0:|0|20|40|60|80|100|1:|No+Opinion|Not%20enough|About%20right|Too%20far&chm=t+50%25,333333,0,0,11|t+32%25,333333,0,1,11|t+16%25,333333,0,2,11|t+2%25,333333,0,3,11

Q: In terms of criticizing McCain, do you think Obama has gone too far, not far enough, or handled it about right?

http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=bhs&chco=82926b&chs=225x150&chd=t:24,67,7,2&chxt=x,y&chxl=0:|0|20|40|60|80|100|1:|No+Opinion|Not%20enough|About%20right|Too%20far&chm=t+24%25,333333,0,0,11|t+67%25,333333,0,1,11|t+7%25,333333,0,2,11|t+2%25,333333,0,3,11
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 05:24 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
3) Most Americans want moderate reasonable solutions to problems. [..] Most of us want a reasonable tax policy that raises taxes for the wealthy and provides cuts for the middle class. The Democrats are offering us this.

I have a post up on Observationalism now that covers this (sources are linked in the original):

Quote:
Spread the wealth? What Americans think

In my post, after the third presidential debate, about McCain’s efforts to make “spreading the wealth around” sound like the most ominous thing, I quoted Ezra Klein as saying that “for most folks, spreading the wealth around probably seems like a good idea” right now.

This is correct, Brian Schaffner of the CCPS argued yesterday at his new home on pollster.com. Taking as lead how the ABC/WaPo poll hasn’t shown any movement this month on the question which candidate is trusted more on the question of taxes, he digs up data showing so from a 2003 survey conducted by NPR, the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Kennedy School of Government.

Moreover, in case you’re feeling doubtful about those sponsors, the same thing is largely confirmed by Gallup data, which the polling firm’s in-depth look at the issue on Thursday revealed.

Read on...
0 Replies
 
 

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