socialism

Oh, look, **** tossing. No one can curb it, such a delight it is, for those in junior high and sometimes older.



So, Finn, will you pinpoint your gripes against Buddhistic socialism?

I am neither a buddhist nor a compleat socialist (in my rather vaporous understanding of that), though not without interest... I'm sometimes closer to those views than some other views.

I remain more interested in explication of points of view about socialism and social policy than I am about poster slams.

I'm also interested in libertarian takes on socialism - even very interested.

I have now proven that your claim that there is no connection between the eastern tradition and socialism is false. If you indicate that you have the knowledge base to follow I will also show you how the Chinese Zen monastic tradition merges the ideals of western socialism with the modern ecological movement.

I won't hold my breath.

So, hawkeye, why don't you do that? Are you just talking with Finn? Am I -- or the rest of us a2k readers - chopped liver?

Then ignore the posts you consider sophomoric.

Please enlighten us, Oh Zen Socialist Master.

Sure, I can do that. We all do.

I've been liking all the posts so far except for my stated quibbles. To reiterate, the thread is to access information, not be a darts playground. It's been doing swell so far... mostly.

I don't mind virulent disagreement - but I'm interested in explication, not slamathons.
Consider the possibility, which happens to be true, that I want to learn. I asked the question about the meaning of socialism not in a coy way.

Monastic Zen reflects socialism is two ways primarily. The first is the sense of "we are all in this together". In Zen everybody works, the master, the most infirm, everybody. The work is divided by ability to work, democratically, but if you don't work you don't eat...period. When there is work do be done or work to be divided there is no class distinctions either, one man one vote, one man and one duty assigned and he better get it done whether he is the master or the newest addition.

the second socialist trait is "you take only what you need, nothing is wasted" When you go begging if you collect what you set out to get then you are done. At mealtime you get a helping of rice that is smallish and if you eat it all you will get more, and when you are satisfied you leave one grain of rice in your bowl so that the server knows not to give you anymore. One grain, that is all that can be wasted. Personal property is minimal in the extreme, one small pack. When something is given to you it does not become yours personally it becomes property of the order, it is shared with the brothers because to keep it would be to keep more than what is needed.

Modern Zenists see some of themselves in the Green's because "take care of what you have" is very close to "take only what you need, nothing is wasted". The greens pay more attention to stewardship maybe, but both have a strong aversion to accumulating stuff that is not needed, mindless consumption. The Green's sense of Holistic health is also very close to the Zen sense of "we are all in this together"...both understand the interconnectedness of all living beings, between humans and the Planet. A Zenist would say that the earth "people's" in the sense that the earth sprouts people in the same way the the dirt sprouts plants...with out a healthy earth the ability of the planet to produce people is diminished. Without a healthy earth healthy humans can not exist, and can not exist in our current numbers for long unless we detox the Earth.