10
   

Is It To Late To Stop Christianty

 
 
Evano17
 
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 09:54 pm
There are many many reasons why i choose not to believe in a religion im not quite sure if I'm an atheist or agnostic, mainly because i dont fully understand what they truly mean. but the world has been in a messed up place for thousands of years and the main reason for all of these problems backs onto religion. I can definitely see the why people chose to believe in god, so that in some way they have hope, but i thinks its a waste of time i know there is no hope because we have no control over anything and everything that is going on around us. i personally think that Christianity and Catholicism has gone on for long enough. . .
Wat are your thoughts on this topic?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 10 • Views: 3,649 • Replies: 40
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dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 12:05 am
@Evano17,
Yes.


At least for a few more millenia.
0 Replies
 
Xenoche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 12:12 am
@Evano17,
Religeon makes killing righteous.

Nuff said.
Evano17
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 08:01 am
@Xenoche,
Religeon makes killing righteous.

Nuff said.
-
Hmmm well that's a very religious thing to say.I cant believe anyone would think like that, how can killing someone be right, that has to be one of the stupidest things Ive ever heard. . .
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 09:56 am
@Evano17,
I think most folks believe in allowing people to believe and worship how they feel. It seems to me that by wanting to squelch someone's belief in God is like trying to keep Muslims from worshipping Allah, or Wiccans from practicing Wicca. We may not believe as others do, but thankfully there are many countries that have found a way to allow others to worship as they feel led - or not to worship if they don't want to.

No doubt, Christianity and Catholicism has had some brutal moments. Other religions as well. But man is imperfect and unfortunately they many times serve a more selfish desire. So people are hurt and killed in the name of God. As far as I am concerned that is wrong. Every religion I have ever read about has parts that are not understandable. Things that cannot be explained - and that do not seem right. But it is part of the mystery of that religion you either believe it or you don't - pretty simple. I do believe that if people kill in the name of God that they are wrong and should be punished accordingly.

But as far as history is concerned. The more Christianity is squelched the more the remnant of strong believers rise up. Hard times seem to bring out true faith. God will always have a people.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 10:12 am
@Evano17,
Evano17 wrote:

There are many many reasons why i choose not to believe in a religion im not quite sure if I'm an atheist or agnostic, mainly because i dont fully understand what they truly mean. but the world has been in a messed up place for thousands of years and the main reason for all of these problems backs onto religion. I can definitely see the why people chose to believe in god, so that in some way they have hope, but i thinks its a waste of time i know there is no hope because we have no control over anything and everything that is going on around us. i personally think that Christianity and Catholicism has gone on for long enough. . .
Wat are your thoughts on this topic?

Mankind has an evil streak, with or without religion. Evil uses religion to further its means, just as it uses all manner of other things to further its means, most notably governments. You are mis indentifying the problem, as it is not religion, but the basic nature of man. Religion can also be a tremendous force for good, such as setting out an acceptable moral code, by which people can live in a reasonably harmonious manner. Government can also be a force for good, if it is guided by a decent underlying moral code, which I believe requires a religious code of ethics, something bigger than flesh and blood, which requires a God, just my opinion.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 10:42 am
@okie,
Quote:
Mankind has an evil streak, with or without religion. Evil uses religion to further its means, just as it uses all manner of other things to further its means, most notably governments. You are mis indentifying the problem, as it is not religion, but the basic nature of man. Religion can also be a tremendous force for good, such as setting out an acceptable moral code, by which people can live in a reasonably harmonious manner. Government can also be a force for good, if it is guided by a decent underlying moral code, which I believe requires a religious code of ethics, something bigger than flesh and blood, which requires a God, just my opinion.


I suppose it was inevitable that we might agree on something, okie. Humans organize themselves in fairly predictable ways and whether they organize around tribal identities or religious affiliations or nationalist notions or whatever, they'll behave as humans behave within those parameters.

But I don't find your notion of "evil" (as some sort of objective component in the universe) to be either coherent or reasonable...it's a vestigal idea arising out of your particular faith tradition (and it's not a part of all faith communities either factually or as a logical necessity).



TilleyWink
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 11:50 am
@Evano17,
Quote:
Is It To Late To Stop Christianty
Yes, way to late.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 11:53 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
But I don't find your notion of "evil" (as some sort of objective component in the universe) to be either coherent or reasonable...it's a vestigal idea arising out of your particular faith tradition (and it's not a part of all faith communities either factually or as a logical necessity).


Without arguing here, I happen to believe there is a God that created the creation, and man was created with a need for faith, much like he was created with other attributes. How he did it, I don't happen to know the details. At some point, every person needs to decide whether he or she believes or not, and what they believe in or what they don't believe in. Not believing in God also requires some kind of belief, you can't really opt out of the choice.

Along with this, I also believe in light and darkness, good and evil, and that there are some things inherently evil, and they are self evident. In America, our governing system is basically founded upon the acceptance of a God that gave us God given rights that are self evident, and the government was arranged to guarantee those rights. Without a God in the equation, the system is then cut adrift to whatever ideas may be dreamed up by anybody that gain popular support.

I think actually the above is the main rub between conservatives and the liberal secular movement here in this country, which does not bode well for our future. It will inevitably lead to more friction, unrest, hatred, and violence, all because the mainstream believes less in God, and thus they will demand the government to take the place of God.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 01:10 pm
@okie,
Quote:
I think actually the above is the main rub between conservatives and the liberal secular movement here in this country, which does not bode well for our future. It will inevitably lead to more friction, unrest, hatred, and violence, all because the mainstream believes less in God, and thus they will demand the government to take the place of God.


No reason at all for this to occur. Many cultures with disparate belief systems have, and do, live together in reasonable harmony.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 03:03 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
I think actually the above is the main rub between conservatives and the liberal secular movement here in this country, which does not bode well for our future. It will inevitably lead to more friction, unrest, hatred, and violence, all because the mainstream believes less in God, and thus they will demand the government to take the place of God.


No reason at all for this to occur. Many cultures with disparate belief systems have, and do, live together in reasonable harmony.

Maybe, but I see alot more unrest and disharmony in society than ever, blatham. I look back to a time when people did not lock their doors, did not lock their cars, trusted their banks, etc.

I recently had an experience in a bank that shook me up. I opened a cd for an amount, but when I looked at the paper closer later that day after leaving the bank, the certificate had been wrongly typed without a zero, so the amount was only one tenth of the proper amount, many thousands of dollars off, and the written out amount was also wrong. I immediately returned to the bank and asked for a correction. Guess what, no apology, she simply took some whiteout and corrected it, while saying no big deal, her computer had the correct amount, and she showed me the screen. Dress code was not great, jeans and rings coming from several body parts. Needless to say, I demanded a complete new copy without whiteout, with the appropriate amounts entered and signed, this done with other personnel assisting this - I will say it - pathetic employee. That did not endear a great deal of trust in the institutions of this country, in regard to the younger generation. I look back to a generation that cared, an honest generation, that respected people, their jobs, and they looked and acted like it. I used to think dress did not matter, but I have changed my mind. I believe we need to dress as achievers, within reasonable limits, and as one that respects what we are doing, and it will show in the results. I am not saying this employee is an example of all people, but I do see a greater percentage of this attitudes out there, and I think this is a small example of what I see eating away at the framework of a very stable, trustworthy, and pleasant society that I grew up in.

I'm sorry, blatham, I don't see good times ahead, unless society goes back to the things that made this country what it was, and that was a God fearing society. When I say that, not everybody needs to be religious, but the mainstream needs some religious and moral grounding to anchor it. There is always room for those that believe anything, and sure atheists can be and are good people, but if the mainstream loses its center of gravity in this regard, we will be set adrift. And I believe in freedom, freedom to fail, so if the country goes another way, I won't fight it, but I simply provide a warning for what I think will happen. It will become more third worldish, where corruption becomes more and more commonplace. I simply think that alot of people are unaware and naive in terms of why we have enjoyed the pleasant lives that we have had so far. I do not think they realize how dismal the result of a slippery slope really can be.

Just my opinion, blatham. I grew up where a handshake meant it was as good as gold.
Evano17
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 03:41 pm
@okie,
Wow you are a very powerful speaker, that was very well written. And i agree with almost all that your saying accept for that the world needs religion, we cant be sure if we need religion because there has always been some form of religion i think that the world in no way needs religion but i may be wrong, i just see all the bad in the world and when i see it i just think of religion, just my opinion and that's all that i have.
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 04:21 pm
@Evano17,
I think you are confuseing religion with politics. Politicians use religion for the advance of secular wealth meaning wars. If you listen to the real religious leaders you will find that they condem war and mindless killing. Most religions tell us we can defend ourselves but the politicians want great wars for profit. If you want to change things get rid of politicians.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 04:39 pm
@Evano17,
Evano17 wrote:

Wow you are a very powerful speaker, that was very well written. And i agree with almost all that your saying accept for that the world needs religion, we cant be sure if we need religion because there has always been some form of religion i think that the world in no way needs religion but i may be wrong, i just see all the bad in the world and when i see it i just think of religion, just my opinion and that's all that i have.

Everybody has their own opinion, but mine tells me that unless I have something greater than myself to guide my thoughts and actions, I can pretty much mold whatever morality that might be convenient for me at any particular time. Situational ethics, which can justify almost anything, need I mention any examples? I don't see anything that can be greater than the human kingdom, than a spiritual kingdom, a God. So I choose to believe in a God, one that has power, power of a creator, and principles, right and wrong, light and darkness. It solves alot of problems and quandaries that our lives encounter. And gives us a big reason to be content and happy, and optimistic. It also gives us an overarching reason to do the right thing, even if it may cost us personally.
Evano17
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 07:12 pm
@okie,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-So I choose to believe in a God, one that has power, power of a creator, and - -principles, right and wrong, light and darkness. It solves alot of problems and - -quandaries that our lives encounter. And gives us a big reason to be content - and -happy, and optimistic. -
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But by saying this you are simply ignoring the problems that we face and thats what religion is. these are some pretty good quotes that match exactly what your saying.
"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned."
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today."
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true."
"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows."

I believe that there is something a lot more powerful intellectually then us out there some where in space. But i dont believe that anything created us we were created through natural selection we have adapted to our surroundings that all. and i cant believe in the heavens and hell or god or jesus, and especially not the Book Of Lies(bible). Ive studied the bible and if u add up all of the dates in it it implies that the earth is only six thousand years old from the creation story to now. thats how i know that the Christianity, Catholicism, and Judaism etc are all full of s**t. . . Very Happy
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 07:40 pm
I am a Buddhist which believes in the strict law of causality. Pretty much all my questions are answered in this most profound philosophy. However, if someone chooses to be Christian I would never hold that against them.
Evano17
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 09:09 pm
@NickFun,
Well I definitely would hold it against a christian, but never a budhist because i dont fully understand it.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 10:16 pm
@Evano17,
I don't think the Bible gives an age for the earth. People making intrepretations have done that. If you read the creation story, it gives days, eras, or periods of time, we really don't know how long those were. And we don't know if the story is partly or wholly allegory, after all the tree of knowledge of good and evil does not exist in the natural kingdom as far as I know.

All religions incorporate an element of faith, that is the nature of what religion is, believing in a supernatural that does not lend itself to scientific explanation or proof, but as a person trained in science, I don't find the creation story much different than what scientists believe the order to have been. Beyond that, I think we all must admit there are a few things we will never know, it is not within our capacity. Actually, the more we discover, the more we see that we don't know.

But faith does not stand or fall, based upon intellectual or scientific undertanding. Otherwise, a deaf and dumb person for example could never have the same standing as a rocket scientist, so I believe a just God says they are the same value and they have the same capacity to believe and to succeed in a spiritual way.

I embrace Christianity, because it makes sense, and it centers around love, forgiveness, optimism, and all the rest of everything uplifting and hopeful for everlasting happiness and peace.
0 Replies
 
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 10:24 pm
@Evano17,
Hey Evano, I don't mean to proselytize here but you can find out more at www.sgi-usa.org
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2008 12:27 am
@Evano17,
You believe in science and evolution. You believe because some scientist has told you there is such a thing as atoms, electrons, protons and neutrons. Some scientist has written a book claiming all these things are true. You believe these things because you have been told this. You have to believe them through having faith in the word of a scientist. If you deny this then I want you to prove me wrong by showing me an atom or an electron. Dont knock others beliefs. It shows more stupidity than intelligance. If you dont want to believe in a history book that was written for a people who lived 5 or 6 thousand years ago fine.
 

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