23
   

Teenage Girl: Sex Offender?

 
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 11:14 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

The more I think about this misused of the law the more annoy I become.

First, the law in question was design to offer protections to young people like the girl in question, not as a tool to do great harm to her.

Second the DA stated reason why he charge her was that he got tired of warning the local teenagers to stop sharing sexual pictures among themselves and he wish to make an example, in other word his pride was hurt that the teenagers did not take the whole issue seriously.
Either that; or after receiving 20 complaints, and choosing to offer warnings instead of the charges the complaintants sought, and nothing else worked he had little choice but to enforce the law.

BillRM wrote:
Kind of like shooting, a puppy who is slow to be housebroken is it not in the hope that the other puppies will get the idea?
Rolling Eyes Nobody shot the girl. No one's going to shoot the girl. No one's even thought about shooting the girl. They arrested her and charged her. Most people would kennel the puppy, if they had a clue, or punish it in some other way. In your foolish example however; the appropriate remedy would be to let it piss and **** all over the house with impunity.

BillRM wrote:
It would also seem this sharing of pictures was very common with the local teenagers, so why of all the teenagers did the prosecutor not pick a teenager with an intact family to bring the full weigh of the law down on instead of a young woman with no one to stand up for her?
Read what's already been provided, and you'll avoid asking such stupid questions. After numerous complaints; the Prosecutor was decent enough to tour the county giving thousands of kids fair warning. This particular girl was warned then, and a second time, individually, and still chose to break the law, knowing full well she was doing so and what the consequences would be. Your fallacious appeal to pity, over irrelevant details falls flat in the face of the FACTS.






spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 01:06 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
After numerous complaints; the Prosecutor was decent enough to tour the county giving thousands of kids fair warning.


Yeah. Putting ideas into their heads to be milked later when one of them bit at the bait.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 01:10 pm
@spendius,
Begs the question: why wasn't this prosecutor put on a leash earlier? Hopefully someone will be held accountable at election time.
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 01:23 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
After numerous complaints; the Prosecutor was decent enough to tour the county giving thousands of kids fair warning.


Yeah. Putting ideas into their heads to be milked later when one of them bit at the bait.
That's probably it Spendi. Rolling Eyes After receiving 20 criminal complaints; he thought, "while that's a marvelous idea!" Instead of charging those 20 kids, I'll just waste my time touring the county warning 1,000's more… so that maybe I can charge one of them instead. The inherent, obvious, idiocy in your statement; is that he could have simply charged 1 to 20 of the initial complaints.

Think before you post.
OCCOM BILL
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 01:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Begs the question: why wasn't this prosecutor put on a leash earlier? Hopefully someone will be held accountable at election time.
Because he was doing his job above and beyond the call of duty, you ignorant, depraved fool.
(After receiving complaints; he attempted to address the lawbreaking without charging anyone.)
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 01:41 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
his job is to field complaint's, use discretion on what cases to pursue and in what manor, and to be successful in seeing that justice is done.....you ignorant, depraved fool.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 02:32 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
I wasn't aware he had received 20 complaints but to go around all the schools lecturing thousands on hyperactive young women about how naughty it is putting pictures of their pooter-pies on their mobiles is asking for it to become a fad in my opinion.

I notice you are still ignoring the role of Media in all this. They do specialise in lurid reporting and giving people ideas. Presumably so that they will have more dramas to report.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 05:29 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Lord this law was design to protect children from adults, not to punish children for being children! Hell if she had been 18 what she did would not be a crime in any way or in any manner.

What kind of a strange universe do you live in that the act of a 15 year old taking pictures of herself should be punish by a law! This silliness will cause our young people to have a deep deep contempt for the legal system in my opinion.

This need to be address by the state lawmakers and if not the courts need to overturn it under the cruel and unusual punishmnet clause.

Hopefully the votere will turn this fool and evil man out of office also.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 05:32 pm
@BillRM,
A sentiment I concur with. I think he's a dirty old man who likes keeping this subject at the forefront of his mind.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 05:57 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
By the way what is next are we going to find teenagers masbating and charge them with statutory raping themselves perhaps?

The above is no more or not less silly then charging someone under the child porn laws for taking a picture of themself.
OCCOM BILL
 
  2  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 07:13 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

By the way what is next are we going to find teenagers masbating and charge them with statutory raping themselves perhaps?
If they film it and send the film to other kids, yes. You think that's wrong? How do you know that isn't exactly what happened here?

BillRM wrote:
The above is no more or not less silly then charging someone under the child porn laws for taking a picture of themself.
Utter nonsense.
Debra Law
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 10:59 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
OCCOM BILL wrote:

I have misread nothing, Debra. I directly quoted a Supreme Court Decision. Your continued denial of the obvious only serves to make you look more incompetent. Your continued ducking of the question that disproves your nonsense speaks volumes.


You misread the case. You do not possess the requisite base of knowledge and intellectual skill to read the case from beginning to end and understand it as a whole. You're unwilling to educate yourself and you're arrogant in your ignorance. It is obvious that you belong to the Sarah Palin school of thought: If you can see the courthouse from your car window as you drive by, that makes you an expert in constitutional law, criminal law, landmark child pornography jurisprudence, statutory interpretation, public policy, and legislative intent.

I did not "duck" your argument. I addressed it directly. Again, you did not understand the underlying basis for the Court's holding. Instead, you focused on obiter dictum to argue that the state may criminalize possession for the purpose of encouraging possessors to destroy the materials, and if the material is thus destroyed, the CONTENT of the material cannot be misused in the future by potential seducers of children. Although the Court noted possible fringe benefits that may flow from "encouraging" the destruction of child pornography by possessors, that was not the basis of the Court's decision in Osborne. In case there was any doubt in your mind, the Court clearly and unambiguously rejected your argument in the Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition case. I provided you with the hyperlink to the case.

Occom Bill wrote:
According you; charging a Teen with underage alcohol consumption, to reduce the occurrence of underage alcohol consumption would be an "absurd result."


Again, you have created a straw man. I did not argue that the government could not prohibit persons from committing status offenses, e.g., underage consumption of alcohol. Possessing child pornography is not a status offense. You are comparing two different animals.

Quote:
Common sense, Ohio Statute 2907.323, the Prosecutor, Supreme Court Justice White and the majority of the highest Court in the land all disagree.


You're lying.

The prosecutor in the Ohio matter under discussion abused his power and violated the public trust. The facts and the law support my interpretation of the statute. Again, you're taking lessons from Sarah "Abuse of Power" Palin. When Palin read a report that stated she had abused her power and violated the code of ethics, Palin stated the report cleared her of any misconduct whatsoever. She's a liar and so are you.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 11:09 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Now who in the hell are we protecting here by applying the law in the silly manner you wish it to be apply. Who is the victim of this so call crime? The boy who received it? Then however if we are going to apply the child porn laws he is also a sexual offender and off to jail with him to.

If an adult had taken the picture then the 15-year-old girl would had been the victim but no adult did so. You are now trying to claim that she is the victim of the act and the criminal because of the act at the same time.

Kind of like charging someone the crime of robbing themselves or raping themselves or on and on.

Sorry that you don’t approve of naked pictures of females but to punish in any legal way a 15 year old for taking such a picture is clearly insane.

Perhaps you would be more comfortable in a Muslin country where a woman is beaten on the streets if she uncovers any part of her body?
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 11:37 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
You know it would seem the problem here is a law was not carefully written enough to keep it from being use as a weapon by people with sexual hang-ups against our young people.

Why in the world when you think about it logically with all the violence crime in any community would a DA take all the time and resources going from one school to another to try to suppress girls sharing pictures of themselves with their boyfriends?

Seem that kind of minor misbehavior would be handle by the parents and the schools not a DA and surely not by bringing out the cannon of the sex porn laws.

It is bad when people with sexual hang-ups get in positions of power.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 12:42 am
@Debra Law,
Laughing Pronouncing you are right over and over again while ducking the question that proves you're wrong a half a dozen times in a row is ridiculous, Debra. Here; I'll quote it for you again:

Quote:
You still haven't answered why 2907.323 continues to apply long after a minor becomes an adult or perishes. Why? Because it is obvious that legislative intent extends beyond protecting the minor[s] depicted.
This simple, obvious fact won’t go away.

The Supreme Court, the prosecutor and I are on the same page here. Again:
Supreme Court Justice WHITE, in delivering the Osborne opinion wrote:

It is obvious from the face of § 2907.323(A)(3) that the goal of the statute is to eradicate child pornography.
No intelligent person could misinterpret this, Debra… if they didn’t have an opposing agenda (set aside your agenda long enough to reason, and you’d have to agree. You’ve proven you’re no attorney, but you’re certainly intelligent enough to recognize the obvious truth.). Continuing to pretend the sole purpose of the statute is to protect the person depicted is tantamount to idiocy once one reads the statute and the Supreme Court’s definition of its purpose. It extends beyond its main purpose. The exclusion you seek would have been included if it were intended.

Toss as many ad hominem attacks my way as you please, and as much as they may feel like righteous retribution, they won’t change what the legislator’s wrote, or how the Supreme Court of the land interpreted it.
Debra Law
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 12:57 am
@OCCOM BILL,
You're lying again, Bill. I have addressed all of your arguments. All of your arguments are without merit.

The legislature cannot ERADICATE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY just because it wants to--it must serve a LEGITIMATE government purpose.
OCCOM BILL
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:55 am
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

You're lying again, Bill. I have addressed all of your arguments. All of your arguments are without merit.

The legislature cannot ERADICATE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY just because it wants to--it must serve a LEGITIMATE government purpose.
Rolling Eyes Whether you agree or disagree with me; I've lied not once. Don't be so childish.

You on the other hand have lied by repeatedly pretending you've answered this question while repeatedly failing to do so:

Quote:
You still haven't answered why 2907.323 continues to apply long after a minor becomes an adult or perishes. Why? Because it is obvious that legislative intent extends beyond protecting the minor[s] depicted.
The simple truth here is still not going away.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 02:00 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Now who in the hell are we protecting here by applying the law in the silly manner you wish it to be apply. Who is the victim of this so call crime? The boy who received it? Then however if we are going to apply the child porn laws he is also a sexual offender and off to jail with him to.
If you can't think any clearer than this; I will simply ignore you. At least try. If you really can't see a difference in culpability between the sender and the unwitting receiver; you are an idiot. Now, you aren't really that foolish, are you?

BillRM wrote:
If an adult had taken the picture then the 15-year-old girl would had been the victim but no adult did so. You are now trying to claim that she is the victim of the act and the criminal because of the act at the same time.
I am trying to claim no such thing. That nonsense belongs to Debra, alone. In a philosophical sense; I suppose one may consider her a victim of this or that, but legally; she is a victim of nothing.

BillRM wrote:
Kind of like charging someone the crime of robbing themselves or raping themselves or on and on.
No, nothing like that. Rolling Eyes More like charging a kid for giving drugs to another kid. Or do you also think its only illegal if ADULTs give drugs to kids?... and that another kid doing it should be immune from prosecution, because hey; he's a kid so he must automatically be a victim whether there is an adult perp or not?

BillRM wrote:
Sorry that you don’t approve of naked pictures of females but to punish in any legal way a 15 year old for taking such a picture is clearly insane.
WTF makes you think I don't approve of pictures of naked females? I hope you are a Youngster, BillRM. Adults, who aren't depraved like Hawkeye, don't think of 15 year olds as adults.

BillRM wrote:
Perhaps you would be more comfortable in a Muslin country where a woman is beaten on the streets if she uncovers any part of her body?
Ever hear that when you Assume you make an Ass out of U and Me? Don't you believe it. You generally make an ass out of yourself alone. (You'd be hard pressed to find a more consistent advocate of women's rights.) Don’t assume.

Your next assumptive post was too idiotic to bother addressing. Please tell us how old you are… and try to think before you post.

spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 07:26 am
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
Adults, who aren't depraved like Hawkeye, don't think of 15 year olds as adults.


Which adults do you mean Bill? 15 year old, and younger, girls have been highly prized in history by kings, generals, ministers, artists, grand viziers, emperors, merchants, archbishops and most others whose position gave them access to them. Are you not aware of that?

The legal age for marriage in France in 1880 was fifteen and the Goncourt journal has an entry- "The Sarah Bernhardt family, now
there's a family! The mother made whores of her daughters as soon as they turned thirteen." And only influential and fashionable men need apply.

Even Coronation Street had a thirteen year old giving birth.

Quote:
(You'd be hard pressed to find a more consistent advocate of women's rights.)


Easy to say.

OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 12:19 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
Adults, who aren't depraved like Hawkeye, don't think of 15 year olds as adults.


Which adults do you mean Bill? 15 year old, and younger, girls have been highly prized in history by kings, generals, ministers, artists, grand viziers, emperors, merchants, archbishops and most others whose position gave them access to them. Are you not aware of that?

The legal age for marriage in France in 1880 was fifteen and the Goncourt journal has an entry- "The Sarah Bernhardt family, now
there's a family! The mother made whores of her daughters as soon as they turned thirteen." And only influential and fashionable men need apply.

Even Coronation Street had a thirteen year old giving birth.


This is the perfect example of a fallacious Argumentum ad antiquitatem.

Quote:
Argumentum ad antiquitatem (the argument to antiquity or tradition). This is the familiar argument that some policy, behavior, or practice is right or acceptable because "it's always been done that way." This is an extremely popular fallacy in debate rounds; for example, "Every great civilization in history has provided state subsidies for art and culture!" But that fact does not justify continuing the policy.

Because an argumentum ad antiquitatem is easily refuted by simply pointing it out, in general it should be avoided. But if you must make such an argument -- perhaps because you can't come up with anything better -- you can at least make it marginally more acceptable by providing some reason why tradition should usually be respected. For instance, you might make an evolutionary argument to the effect that the prevalence of a particular practice in existing societies is evidence that societies that failed to adopt it were weeded out by natural selection. This argument is weak, but better than the fallacy alone.

One could easily use this same argument for contesting women's right to vote; but it would be just as fallacious.

Dlowan has repeatedly, painstakingly, demonstrated that a 15 year old's brain is not fully developed... and decency demands that adults recognize this simple matter of fact.

Obviously media sexualizes teens to great extent, and there will never be a compromise (agreeable to all) between freedom of speech and protecting the innocent.

Ohio chose to legally draw that line in the sand at taking and distributing naked pictures of minors, with a focus on private parts, when no reasonable purpose existed. The Supreme Court upheld the statute and they, the SC of Ohio, the prosecutor in this exact case, and I all concur that this is a reasonable place to draw the line.

spendius wrote:
Quote:
(You'd be hard pressed to find a more consistent advocate of women's rights.)
Easy to say.
Exceedingly easy for one who's long admired vocal ladies and heroes from Abigail Adams to Alice Paul to Maryam Rajavi. One who's advocated that a basic human rights standard (including, but not limited to, women’s rights) be established and enforced to the extent possible, globally. You won’t profit from impugning my motivation, Spendi… and there’s no relevance in it anyway.
 

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