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OBAMA VERSUS MCCAIN: ARGUMENTS FOR WHO IS BETTER FOR MOST AMERICANS

 
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Wed 8 Oct, 2008 04:52 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
McCain does have it right on a lot of his economic philosophy--getting government out of the way and allowing Americans to prosper as Americans know how to do better than just about anybody. . . .

For long term prosperity, the free market must be allowed sufficient freedom to get it done and McCain is far more likely to understand that.


Which McCain are you talking about? The McCain that talks out of one side of his face about REGULATING the free market for the public good? Or the McCain that talks out of the other side of his face about DEREGULATING the free market for the public good?


0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Wed 8 Oct, 2008 05:11 pm
The winner of Debate II? "That One."

Quote:
In Debate II, John McCain twice laid out the criteria for how the American people should judge the candidates: In tough times, we need someone with a steady hand on the tiller. By that measure, Obama was the clear winner. He was centered where McCain was scattered. Forceful where McCain was forced. Presidential where McCain was petulant. In the first debate, McCain wouldn't look at Obama. In this one, he referred to him as "that one." The contempt was palpable, and unpalatable. At the end of the debate, Brokaw asked McCain to get out of the way of his Teleprompter. He might as well have been speaking on behalf of the future: Senator McCain can you please get out of the way so we can get on with it?


0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Thu 9 Oct, 2008 09:54 am
Michael Tanner in The Washington Times, Friday, July 25,2008 wrote:
Peter Orszag is no conservative ideologue. The head of the Congressional Budget Office(CBO) was a scholar at the liberal Brookings Institution before being picked for his current position by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. Yet Mr. Orszag recently warned that the rising cost of federal entitlement programs, particularly Medicare, Medicaid,, and Social Security, poses a grave threat to America’s economic future.

According to Mr. Orszag, without dramatic reform, the cost of those three programs alone will rise from 18 percent of GDP today to 28 percent by the middle of the century and as much as 35 percent soon thereafter. That means that just three federal government programs will be consuming between a quarter and a third of everything the country produces. Paying for those programs would require raising both the corporate tax rate and top income tax rate from their current 35 percent to 88 percent, the current 25 percent tax rate for middle income workers to 63 percent, and the 10 percent tax bracket for low-income workers to 25 percent. The impact on workers, businesses and the economy at large would be catastrophic.

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Thu 9 Oct, 2008 10:17 am
What Obama is currently, relatively well organized to accomplish, will be far more harmful to most Americans than what McCain is currently, relatively disorganized to accomplish.

Is it really best for most Americans for Obama to accomplish his tax program, energy program, entitlement program, anti-terrorist program, employment program, and property redistribution program?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 01:49 pm
In a word, yes.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 03:48 pm
The consequences of what Obama is advocating will be an increase in federal enterprise and a decrease in private enterprise.

The consequences of what McCain is advocating will be a decrease in federal enterprise and an increase in private enterprise.

We know that it was Congress's creation of Fanny&Freddie and Congress's refusal to hold it accountable that has led to the corruption of Fanny&Freddie and our entire economy. We know that tolerating the federal government giving itself powers not delegated to it by the USA Constitution has led to increasing corruption of our federal government. It is stupid to vote for Obama who wants to give the federal government even more such powers?
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 04:03 pm
We "know" no such thing. What we know is that the Republican-led push over decades for deregulation let sharks in the banks and mortgage companies write increasingly bad mortgages, repackage them and sell them as secure investments, which they were not, making billions for themselves and sticking investors and ultimately , now, us, with trillions in bad debt, while they skate away untouched. Like the S&L scandal, and the energy crisis scandals, if there's an opportunity to game the system, the fast-buck artists will do it. They've done it over and over, and they did it again. Wasn't Fannie. Wasn't Freddie. They were the victims.
ican711nm
 
  1  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 04:04 pm
@ican711nm,
If McCain wins the election, the stock market will rapidly recover, and retirement plans will be rescued.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 04:10 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

If McCain wins the election, the stock market will rapidly recover, and retirement plans will be rescued.


How can you make statements like this, and expect to be taken seriously?

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  1  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 04:16 pm
@MontereyJack,
Democrat Jimmy Carter 1977-1981
Republican Ronald Reagan 1981- 1989
Republican George Bush Sr. 1989-1993
Democrat William Clinton 1993-2001
Republican George Bush Jr. 2001-2009

The above underlined are responsible for the Fanny&Freddie debacle and its damaging consequences to our economy.

We know that Bush tried more than once to prevent the Fanny&Freddie mess from getting worse, but Congressional Democrats obstructed his efforts.

The "fast-buck artists" you mentioned are all, each and every one, Democrats.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 04:18 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Democrat Jimmy Carter 1977-1981
Republican Ronald Reagan 1981- 1989
Republican George Bush Sr. 1989-1993
Democrat William Clinton 1993-2001
Republican George Bush Jr. 2001-2009

The above underlined are responsible for the Fanny&Freddie debacle and its damaging consequences to our economy.

We know that Bush tried more than once to prevent the Fanny&Freddie mess from getting worse, but Congressional Democrats obstructed his efforts.

The "fast-buck artists" you mentioned are all, each and every one, Democrats.


This is a lie. The Democrats could not have stopped Bush and the Republicans in 2005 from reforming FM/FM if they had truly wanted to. Republicans controlled the Exec. Branch and the Leg. branch; how the hell can you blame the Dems?

Geez, Ican. You have lost it, man.

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  1  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 04:31 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
How can you question my obviously true statements and expect to be taken seriously? The stock market is crashing out of fear of the consequences of Obama becoming president. Obama has by his advocacy of increasing taxes on employers, increasing federal entitlements, limiting oil drilling, leaving Iraq to again become a home for al-Qaeda and other terrorists, transfering taxes collected from those who pay taxes to those who do not pay taxes, identified himself as one whose objective is to replace private enterprise with government enterprise. Of course investors are scared as hell of what the man will do if elected president.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 04:34 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Geez, Cycloptichorn, I haven't lost it. But you never lost it, because you never found it, boy.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 04:38 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

How can you question my obviously true statements and expect to be taken seriously? The stock market is crashing out of fear of the consequences of Obama becoming president. Obama has by his advocacy of increasing taxes on employers, increasing federal entitlements, limiting oil drilling, leaving Iraq to again become a home for al-Qaeda and other terrorists, transfering taxes collected from those who pay taxes to those who do not pay taxes, identified himself as one whose objective is to replace private enterprise with government enterprise. Of course investors are scared as hell of what the man will do if elected president.


Ican. The market is not seizing up due to fears of a Dem administration. There is a credit crisis which has lead to an inability for banks to engage in their normal business. It has nothing to do with the election at all.

It's unbelievable that you could even suggest such a thing. Honestly. What a hack you are.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 04:39 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Geez, Cycloptichorn, I haven't lost it. But you never lost it, because you never found it, boy.


'boy?' Change your depends, Gramps, you're sitting in a pile of crap again.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 06:04 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ican. The market is not seizing up due to fears of a Dem administration. There is a credit crisis which has lead to an inability for banks to engage in their normal business. It has nothing to do with the election at all.

Congress has taken many drastic actions to ease the credit crisis. Most of these have to do with giving or lending money to credit institutions. The adoption of these federal credit programs has not stemmed the collapse of the stock market.

Obviously, the credit crisis is not the primary reason for the stock market's collapse. The stock market is collapsing despite these federal credit programs. The reason is clear now. People are afraid Obama will be elected and their investments will be subsequently totally lost. Increasing numbers are deciding to sell now what little they have left and invest the proceeds in a safer market than the one that would exist with Obama president. Such safer markets are either annuities, bonds, gold, over seas equities, or their mattresses.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 10 Oct, 2008 06:15 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ican. The market is not seizing up due to fears of a Dem administration. There is a credit crisis which has lead to an inability for banks to engage in their normal business. It has nothing to do with the election at all.

Congress has taken many drastic actions to ease the credit crisis. Most of these have to do with giving or lending money to credit institutions. The adoption of these federal credit programs has not stemmed the collapse of the stock market.

Obviously


Let's just woah up right there. You ought to think twice before using this term. For what you think is 'obvious' does not logically follow as obvious, given the situations described.

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2008 09:57 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Hold on there, sonny! What you think and/or claim is not obvious, is not necessarily not obvious.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2008 10:03 am
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Hold on there, sonny! What you think and/or claim is not obvious, is not necessarily not obvious.


Sure, that's fair to say. But your argument is still without merit, for you have shown no actual facts to support it.

For example, how does your argument address the fact that the market is, on Monday morning, up 500 points? Obama's lead increased over the weekend, with every new poll coming out showing a gain for him; how does your model show that the market is reacting to this negatively? It doesn't. It highlights the idiocy of your entire argument.

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  1  
Mon 13 Oct, 2008 10:38 am
LET US REVIEW BARACK OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN ADVOCACIES .

He advocates we increase taxes on those best able to create jobs, thereby limiting their job creation capability.

He advocates cutting taxes for the lower 95%, thereby redistributing income tax revenue received from the wealthier to the approximately 30% of that 95% that currently do not pay any income taxes.

He advocates continuing to limit domestic oil drilling (e.g., ANWR) so as to force us to continue to buy mostly foreign oil, while we wait, no one knows how long--assuming our economy lasts that long--to develop adequate supplies of alternate energy.

He advocates we end our counter terrorism support of Iraq before the Iraqis are capable of successfully countering terrorism without our help.

He advocates making large increases in federal charities (i.e., federal entitlements) for people who would actually become independent and self-supporting only if helped directly by private charities.

He advocates expanding the federal government's violation of the USA Constitution by expanding federal transfers of wealth from the more wealthy to the less wealthy.

Oh yes! He has lied and continues to lie about his relationship and/or partnership with Bill Ayres in promoting the evolutionary replacement of our free enterprise constitutional republic with a socialist command republic.
 

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