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Karen Armstrong on Bush, Islam, and the Battle For God

 
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2003 09:01 am
Frank Apisa wrote:

"No one hates Muslims."

Hummmm...makes one wonder how Gato knows this.

Seems to me that Gato knows lots of things that simply are not so.

Frank --the continual practice of "making this discussion personal" is not helping raise the level of quality.

You are a bright guy but obviously you want to turn this into a verbal fight with Italgato-----Yeah I know it sounds strange coming from me doesn't it?---well if you take a look I don't lower myself until goaded into it. Being an ex-fighter pilot I love to mix it up but as you can see "no one wins" in these adsurd exchanges.

Now you can "let fly" at me.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2003 09:06 am
Yeah - Perception don't attack personalities unless goaded into it, Frank. Neither does gato.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2003 11:20 am
Percy, Gato, thanks for hijacking a thread and turning it into a primary school playground, yet again. Rolling Eyes
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2003 11:28 am
Hobit

How about commenting on my post above Frank Apisas or do you still wish to hide behind school yard tactics?
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2003 11:37 am
Percy, this obsession of yours with Wahabism is making me wonder if you have sought therapy. If not, you should. Karen Armstrong does discuss Wahabbism in several of her books, but if you had actually read the edictorial, it wasn't germaine to that particular discussion. Most of the thrust toward Islamic fundamentalism in Iraq is coming from Shia Islam. Therefore bringing Wahabbism into the discussion shows that either you are still pitifully ignorant of the structure of Islam, or that you just don't care and merely wished to turn this thread into an arguement. I have a suspicion its a little of both. Since you have proven incapable of contributing anything to the discussion, you should probably go away now. Bye bye.
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Lightwizard
 
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Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2003 11:41 am
It looks to me like the last few days have been devoted to picking arguments with too many personal axes to grind thrown in for good measure.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2003 12:15 pm
Nice work Hobit----you just killed your own thread :wink:
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Sep, 2003 01:37 pm
I found this troubling:Chaplain Yee
Quote:

Army Cleric Who Ministered to Detainees Is Arrested
By ERIC LICHTBLAU

WASHINGTON, Sept. 20 ?- An Islamic chaplain in the United States Army who ministered to detainees at the camp at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, where the military holds captured militants and suspected terrorists is now himself under arrest while the Army investigates his activities, military and law enforcement officials said today.
The chaplain, Capt. James J. Yee, also known as Youssef Yee, has not been charged either by the military or by civilian authorities, the officials said. His case is being investigated by the Army and if he is charged, it would most likely be under the military justice code, they said.

Military officials declined to say why Captain Yee, a 1990 graduate of West Point who converted to Islam, was being investigated. But a civilian law enforcement official said that the investigation was aimed at suspicions of espionage, improperly assisting the prisoners or some other breach of military duties.

The arrest was reported in The Washington Times today.

A second law enforcement official said that the military had opened its investigation of Captain Yee before he left Guantánamo and that when he was searched upon arriving at the naval air station in Jacksonville, Fla., investigators found what appeared to be sketches or diagrams of the prisoner facilities at Guantánamo.

Investigators are looking into the possibility that he was sympathetic to prisoners there and was preparing to aid them in some undetermined way.

"That's the fear and the suspicion that the Army is pursuing," the second law enforcement official said.

The camp at the American naval base at Guantánamo, where Captain Yee was stationed, holds mostly foreigners captured in fighting in Afghanistan, Pakistan or elsewhere after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Most of them are Muslims, and the military has provided them with Islamic clerics since the camp was established.

The military prison at Charleston, S.C., where Captain Yee was transferred after being arrested in Jacksonville, has also been used to hold suspects facing charges as enemy combatants who might be subjected to trial by military antiterrorism tribunals. But Captain Yee's case is unlikely to be handled that way, officials said.

Instead, as an American citizen and an active duty officer, he might be subjected to charges of violating military law, if the investigation finds grounds for any such charges.

Spokesmen for the Army's Southern Command, confirming that Captain Yee was arrested on Sept. 10 and held since then, said that he had been provided military lawyers to defend himself but declined to give their names. Under military law, they said, he must be given a trial within 120 days of his arrest.

Captain Yee was raised in Springfield, N.J. After graduating from West Point, he served on active duty as an air defense artillery officer, a military spokesman told The Associated Press. He left the Army in the mid-1990's and moved to Syria, the spokesman said. He returned to the United States and re-entered the Army as an Islamic chaplain.

Captain Yee's father and sister declined to comment on the case.

Military officers refused to discuss the reasons for his arrest, saying that would violate his rights.

Civilian officials involved in the case said that their role was secondary, as agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation assisted in the arrest itself and sat in on interviews conducted by military investigators in Jacksonville. The F.B.I. also executed a search warrant in Miami at an apartment that was apparently used by Captain Yee, officials said.

The prisoners at the camp are held under strict supervision but are given some religious amenities. As chaplain, Captain Yee arranged to have recordings of the ritual calls to prayer broadcast through the camp, and to reassure the prisoners their food was prepared according to Islamic dietary guidelines.

Captain Yee has been portrayed in news accounts as a model of a Muslim cleric in American uniform. He occasionally spoke to journalists visiting Guantanamo and was cited as a source before going there. In a typical interview, published by Scripps Howard News Service a month after the Sept. 11 attacks, he said: "An act of terrorism, the taking of innocent civilian lives is prohibited by Islam, and whoever has done this needs to be brought to justice, whether he is Muslim or not."

Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said that while he was not familiar with the facts of the case, "we certainly hope that this man is given all his rights to due process."

Mr. Hooper added, however, that "there are those in our society who love to question the patriotism of American Islamics and this unfortunately will give them ammunition to do that, no matter what the facts of the case are."

Some points to be made:
He is accused of nothing public, yet.
He may be accused of giving aid and comfort to the prisoners. Isn't that what prison chaplains do?
He has spoken out to the media about the (mis)treatment of prisoners there, and has also been rumoured to be a source of information to AI and other human rights groups. This may be in conflict with UCMJ, but the moral imperative should be clear.
I wonder if this is a "trial shot" by the US to see how the populace reacts, in preparation for harsher actions by the DOJ against civilians who oppose Bush and Ashcroft.
I truly hope he was not guilty of aiding a terrorist effort. If he was, he should be tried,and if convicted, locked up for life with a big romantic cellmate named "Bubba," and no lube!
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