"Carnivale," inspired by Tod Browning's "Freaks?" SPOILERS!

It's not easy to figure out who is good and who is evil as both characteristics are being brought out in each character. It's like a magician's slight of hand. Angels? Ben breaks Gabriel's arm and than heals it? The writers have concocted a puzzle here and I am not even going to try and figure Justin and Iris but it did make my skin crawl. I think I'm enjoying all your observations here as much as the series.

It kind of looks like Ben gives life and Justin takes life? Lodz is a cruel control freak that was demoted by Management who probably took away his sight. Now that Ben's on the scene with his power, Lodz is staying sober more and getting very jealous. Ben like Jesus, doesn't like to use his power to prove anything.

On the Angel thing, some where in one of the episodes the Carnivale was refered to as a 'band of Angels', I guess we are all potential Angels in the biblical sense.

Wonder why Iris lied to Dolan saying she didn't hear the live broadcast of the poltician interview?

Hmmm -- interesting interpretations and I have sensed the Biblical framework but mixed up with a kind of Ingmar Bergman chess game. Ben is a very conflicted and contradictory character (excuse the alliteration). The imagery of the healing of Gabriel and the fishes in the lake floating to the surface dead was telling. They sure are going to be dining on a lot of fish?

(Can't answer your question about Iris lying -- anyone? Sofia?).

Don't miss the first seven episodes of Carnivàle back-to-back Sunday afternoon, November 2nd from 2:00 PM - 9:00 PM ET on HBO 2

Thanks, BX -- I also have VOD so I could watch them from number one through seven in sequence.

This is rather like a novel where one finds themselves going back and reading previous sections to recall plot points.

I wish I had a neat answer to the Iris Lie question. As I was watching, I only thought she wanted to give Dolan the impression she was more pious, and uninterested in the 'tawdry' radio--and equally uninterested in the money that would be rolling in due to the interview.

I hope someone else saw something more interesting...

I was really baffled by the whole scene by the river... Who did Irina and Alexei kill?

As someone said-- Thank goodness for reruns. I'll have to see this one again.

LW-- I'm with you. I love the commiserations in this thread!

The lie may have no plot significance but just a window into Iris' character.

I would have to watch that scene by the river again -- if you even blink watching this series you can miss something. I'm sure it's all in the writer's
outline 'cause I don't think they are writing this as they go along. Gawd, I'd like a peek at that!

Brand X observed that Lodz is drinking the absinthe less. (What did Ben call it last week? Poodle piss??)
He does seem to be going thru some kind of withdrawal in the last two episodes. You think he may be trying to shape up in order to deal with Ben and whatever is coming?
I don't think I could handle the Carnivale marathon. Too much info back-to-back. The reruns work very well for me personally. I've never been more grateful for the HBO concept of rerunning episodes several times a week than with this show. Hats off!

I thought Iris was going to get it on with that radio guy. She lied about listening to the radio because she was acting for him, then she did the "oh I can't take a drink" charade and then coyly accepted it. She is toying with him and is not the pious gal she pretends to be. Now that Justin has realized his own powers, and also realized that Iris always knew, she will lose some of her control of him. Maybe she is a little afraid of being alone? Or preparing for something big?

LW, I agree, this episode was to reveal Iris' dark side, the lie could be as simple as that and/or show manipulation as Sofia indicated.

There is so much in the river seen. We know they came from Russia during a time when Germany was invading, therefor Irina kept refering to the 'assassins'. But it seems someone was after them in particular. The kids are well dressed for the time perod, I wonder if they were from some sort of 'royal' family? Who did Alexei kill? It's hard to say, he apparently thought he was saving Irina's life. Could it be the evil father hired assassins to kill them so they fled on a train? Whew!

If their mother had at least told them that, it would be a good reason to never trust anyone but 'a man of God', and they sure didn't recognize Justin to be one of those!

Heeven, Good analysis, Justin called her to say, "You always knew what was inside of me". I take that to mean his powers, because she saw him kill the stranger on the river bank, and who knows what else.

Now, Lodz striking Lilah upon recieving the news of Ben healing Gabe's wing. Definitely revealed a mean streak in him, I don't think that was the absinthe talking eventhough it will certainly destabilize your actions.

Libby got dupped by Sophie, the chariots on the cards were reversed, that means you are going nowhere! Sophie just wanted away out of the Carnivale.

Not sure about Rita's hold on Felix, is it just henpecking or is there something more, or is it in Managements grand scheme that certain people will never leave the Carnivale? I believe Dora Mae was the third child they have lost, don't know the significance of that either.

The management -- that certainly is a metaphysical group. I'm along for the ride right now and not trying to figure out allegories -- I've just go my fingers crossed that the writers are headed toward a profound revelation that will knock our socks off!

We're getting closer to an explanation of Ben's powers and some hints about his past. This all links together but I haven't fit in all the pieces. It's a jigsaw puzzle plot.

Why did this thread die? Anyone still watching?



http://www.tvguide.com/news/insider/031128a.asp

Well, there's gonna have to be a whole buncha new carnies next season, 'cause of the dead people all over the place...

Okay. Sophie, Applonia and Jonesy "seem" to have died in this finale, correct? And Ruthie came back to life?

We don't know if they are dead, but we may, and I emphasize may, know some other stuff. Appy knew Sofie was carrying the Avatar of evil, she couldn't let that gene pool reproduce!

Wasn't it cool how Management played Lodz like a fiddle, convinced him that ben was the anti christ so when he heard the truth from appy, all he could say was, "Madness", then the sky rumbled. Then he got ben to do him in! He Mngnt don't care much for people, they're just chess pieces!

And Sofie played Jonsey and what's her name so cunningly.

Seems ben can heal just walking around, he doesn't have to touch.

I think Management is a She.

Linda Hunt is the voice of management - remember her as the headmistress of Arnies movie, Kindergarten Cop?

Now we have to wait for 2005 for the next season! That bites!