"Carnivale," inspired by Tod Browning's "Freaks?" SPOILERS!

As I see it: Scutter is Ben's father.

I thought Stangler was a mirage-type character-- He was walking away from Babylon, when he was stopped by Samson's truck and told, "I thought you were leaving", he said, "I never leave." He's satanic, to me.

Why were the Babylonians all men? Nary a wimmin in the bunch... I know they're miners, but c'mon... No wives...?

I noticed that also, Sofia. All men. Looked like they came straight from the mines, too. Never touched water.
I have another question about last weeks' black blizzard. Hubby reminded me that Ben stopped the storm for a moment while in the cabin with the blind man (who, by the way, took on a sexier persona last night with the bearded lady, which creeped me out just a teeny bit).
The storm stopped and the sun shone. Remember? Then, when he shouted that only God can do that, the storm began again. What was THAT all about, please? Has he that kind of power?!

Yes he has that kind of power, in fact it was a test by Lodz to see what powers he does have. Next Ben healed himself after being burned by the hot poker.

Don't know why he has these powers though. He tried to tell Lodz he had some things figured out but never got to finish telling him.

They are throwing a lot of metaphysical imagery out there, aren't they? I'm trying to get a handle on the allegorical aspects of the show but in some ways it has a fun house element that is perplexing. The all men showing up all at one time without their women was really spooky. Are the miners real or a mass hypnosis? Lots of questions being asked and so far not many answers -- that could hook the viewer while some may be frustrated like cavfancier. Missing the first shows didn't help, cav. It's unfolding like a novel and that would be like starting a few chapters into the book! There's not just a Lynch influence here, there's also a bit of Kurt Vonnegut. Also Ingmar Bergman -- the Stangler character could be "The Magician." He turned out to have the ability to make people see things that weren't there and not merely a trickster. I'm fascinated, actually.

I could delve into this stuff all day...

That blind guy is appealing to me... His voice... dialect, anyone?

Does absinthe cause brain damage or some such agonizing death after extended use?

Me: fascinated, too.

Lodz does have something special, doesn't he, Sofia?
I believe that absinthe does cause some kind of mental damage. Wasn't/isn't its' sale illegal here in the States?

Lightwizard is correct when saying that part of the appeal is the challenge of the storyline. It's totally beguiling and full of delicious intrigue. We know we're being manipulated but it's cool, we're fed well enough to go along with it.

Fascinated over here as well...

Toulous Latrec was addicted to Absinth as well as Oscar Wilde -- Thujone, a toxic chemical from the wormwood the brew is fermented in is similar to THC in cannibas. It's not really poisonous but like all alcohol will do its damage from overindulgence. It's been said that Hemingway was consistently high on Absinth when he wrote "For Whom the Bell Tolls."

Lodz is really a manipulator isn't he? He's definitely psychic but I believe there is a link between him and the minister.

They left us "in the dark" for the next episode.

<gulp>
<<<shudder>>>

{{{{ooky}}}}

I don't know where to start. My favorite episode, so far.

So, Scudder was about to be lynched by the town...and the mine caved in...? LW, or anybuddy, what do you make of the mine sequence with Ben...? Or any insights?

Missed it last night. Gotta catch it in rerun.

Weird that all the miners at the show were actually ghosts - all killed during the mine cave-in and that they killed Dora-Mae in order to have her 'pleasure' them for eternity. It was haunting when Samson watched her ghost, naked in the window being pulled back to bed by a miner. This is why Stangler wanted to be shot in the head somewhere else ... away from Babylon ... so he wouldn't join the ghost miners forever.

I got bored with Bens dreams or whatever they were.

It seems Ben and Scudder are interchangeable in the dream. Lodz was at the mine that ben was supposedly in, what does that mean and what is the meaning of the bear?

Sophie through her dress, which she was wearing when she lost her virginity, on Dora Mae's body, the end of innocence?

Samson through on a watch from 'management' and that Samson the strongman card, what do you make of that?

Great day!

Just when I thought I was keeping up! I didn't get the dress, and I thought the things Samson through in were just valued possessions... But, you are so intuitive! They may be symbolic. Good insights!

Mgmt controls the group, and they feel, since the odd, useless trip to Babylon that their time is being wasted-- a few talked about how they were trapped... Samson's strongman card--maybe signifying he's at the complete will of Mgmt, or fate.

How about Samson's final, quiet business with Stangler? He upholds The Code in public, and breaks it in private? Kewl.

LW must actually be working today. Hope he's done his homework. Love to hear his ideas.

Dental appointment -- yikes!

I can see we are all going to variations on interpreting what is happening but the metaphysical/supernatural aspects of the show are being ratcheted up dramatically. The minister casting off his religion and venturing into an odyssey with the hobos is also surreal. Makes one think about what is communicating with him?

I was right that the miners were apparitions but Stangler's relationship to them was puzzling. He may have been a reincarnation. Interesting choice of names as it's "strangler" sans the "r" and the carnies did believe he was the murdered.

The previews were very enticing.

Why was the writing on Ben's arm still there if it were a dream? Dayum! This show is a conundrum!

Dammit. I misssed last night and a client called tonight with ten minutes to go. I'll have to catch the end tomorrow. No longer reading this thread until I see the entire episode.

That's okay -- and I thought I should put a warning on the heading that we're discussing plot here.

So Ben healed Gabriel's 'wing', are they Angels? Lodz didn't like Ben performing without him.

Justin and Iris were the Russian kids, and Aleksei(Justin) broke someones neck who was harming Irina(Iris). Irina said her father was a bad man, the pic of him revealed he was a man 'o' the cloth too!

I swear! Felix can't leave without his ol' lady, Libby talks Sophie into leaving her invalid mother but then she can't leave without her own daddy, who can't leave without his ol' lady, what a dependant little family that is.
Justin phoned Iris and said that she knows what's inside of him. Yeah she does. But was she kissing or sniffing his whip? That creeped me out. Something incestuous is going on between those two. Remember a few weeks back how he watched her drying herself off after her bath? And why would she leave the door opened anyway?
So much to take in in less than an hour. It's good that it does rerun several times during the week. It's good to be able to watch it a few times.

The whip thing was chilling, but so is a lot of it. I also think they are 'closer' than should be.

It seems that Ruthie is Ben's mother and Scudder is the father.

Justin was mumbling about his 'birthright', I guess it's his powers he's refering to.

The thing that got me was how Lodz beat Lila after she said that Ben had gone and used his power on his own. He was furious and I was shocked. He appeared so evil at that moment and I had assumed he was enigmatic but a good soul. It seems he is pissed that Ben will not heed him and seek his guidance. Does he want to control Ben and his power?