1
   

Ethel Rosenberg was innocent

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 03:23 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

It makes me happy to think about it.
If I ever feel sad, I ponder that, Comrade Steve.
David
Well you just keep thinking about it if it makes you happy. It'll take your mind off what those charming capitalists have done to the value of your savings.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 03:29 am
@Steve 41oo,
I 'm in pretty good financial shape; thank u for your concern.
Steve 41oo
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 03:45 am
@OmSigDAVID,
You know in Communist China, if a few people screwed up the People's Bank through their greed and mis-management, they would be taken outside and shot. They are proper capitalists there.

OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 04:16 am
@Steve 41oo,
Yes; in Red China, life is cheap.
There was a Chinese M.D., testifying before Congress
about the Red Chinese selling body parts of prisoners
who had been shot. He said that the physicians who were
charged with surgical disassemby of the cadavers were
on a timed production basis, and some of the decedents
were complaining (presumably in Chinese) that thay were not
entirely dead
yet, as thay were being disassembled for sale
of eyes, kidneys, skins, livers, hearts, etc.

I m not sure how that accords with Red Chinese medical ethics.
Maybe u can enlighten us on that, Comrade Steve.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 07:46 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Anyone besides me think it matters that she was innocent, that she did not get due process, that the prosecutors unjustly charged her knowing that she likely was innocent?


Yes, I do.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  4  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 07:47 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

She was not innocent.
She was a filthy commie.



Fortunately, being a communist is not actually against the law, and it certainly is not punishable by death.
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 08:37 am
Quote:
Case closed: The Rosenbergs were Soviet spies

A startling confession again proves their guilt. Now it's time for their left-wing defenders to acknowledge it.

By Ronald Radosh
September 17, 2008

Julius and ethel Rosenberg were executed 55 years ago, on June 19, 1953. But last week, they were back in the headlines when Morton Sobell, the co-defendant in their famous espionage trial, finally admitted that he and his friend, Julius, had both been Soviet agents.

It was a stunning admission; Sobell, now 91 years old, had adamantly maintained his innocence for more than half a century. After his comments were published, even the Rosenbergs' children, Robert and Michael Meeropol, were left with little hope to hang on to -- and this week, in comments unlike any they've made previously, the brothers acknowledged having reached the difficult conclusion that their father was, indeed, a spy. "I don't have any reason to doubt Morty," Michael Meeropol told Sam Roberts of the New York Times.


With these latest events, the end has arrived for the legions of the American left wing that have argued relentlessly for more than half a century that the Rosenbergs were victims, framed by a hostile, fear-mongering U.S. government. Since the couple's trial, the left has portrayed them as martyrs for civil liberties, righteous dissenters whose chief crime was to express their constitutionally protected political beliefs. In the end, the left has argued, the two communists were put to death not for spying but for their unpopular opinions, at a time when the Truman and Eisenhower administrations were seeking to stem opposition to their anti-Soviet foreign policy during the Cold War.

To this day, this received wisdom permeates our educational system. A recent study by historian Larry Schweikart of the University of Dayton has found that very few college history textbooks say simply that the Rosenbergs were guilty; according to Schweikart, most either state that the couple were innocent or that the trial was "controversial," or they "excuse what [the Rosenbergs] did by saying, 'It wasn't that bad. What they provided wasn't important.' "

Indeed, Columbia University professor Eric Foner once wrote that the Rosenbergs were prosecuted out of a "determined effort to root out dissent," part of a broader pattern of "shattered careers and suppressed civil liberties." In other words, it was part of the postwar McCarthyite "witch hunt."


But, in fact, Schweikart is right, and Foner is wrong. The Rosenbergs were Soviet spies, and not minor ones either. Not only did they try their best to give the Soviets top atomic secrets from the Manhattan Project, they succeeded in handing over top military data on sonar and on radar that was used by the Russians to shoot down American planes in the Korean and Vietnam wars. That's long been known, and Sobell confirmed it again last week.

To many Americans, Cold War espionage cases like the Rosenberg and Alger Hiss cases that once riveted the country seem irrelevant today, something out of the distant past. But they're not irrelevant. They're a crucial part of the ongoing dispute between right and left in this country. For the left, it has long been an article of faith that these prosecutions showed the essentially repressive nature of the U.S. government. Even as the guilt of the accused has become more and more clear (especially since the fall of the Soviet Union and the release of reams of historical Cold War documents), these "anti anti-communists" of the intellectual left have continued to argue that the prosecutions were overzealous, or that the crimes were minor, or that the punishments were disproportionate.

The left has consistently defended spies such as Hiss, the Rosenbergs and Sobell as victims of contrived frame-ups. Because a demagogue like Sen. Joseph McCarthy cast a wide swath with indiscriminate attacks on genuine liberals as "reds" (and even though McCarthy made some charges that were accurate), the anti anti-communists came to argue that anyone accused by McCarthy or Richard Nixon or J. Edgar Hoover should be assumed to be entirely innocent. People like Hiss (a former State Department official who was accused of spying) cleverly hid their true espionage work by gaining sympathy as just another victim of a smear attack.

But now, with Sobell's confession of guilt, that worldview has been demolished.

In the 1990s, when it was more than clear that the Rosenbergs had been real Soviet spies -- not simply a pair of idealistic left-wingers working innocently for peace with the Russians -- one of the Rosenberg's sons, Michael, expressed the view that the reason his parents stayed firm and did not cooperate with the government was because they wanted to keep the government from creating "a massive spy show trial," thereby earning "the thanks of generations of resisters to government repression."

Today, he and his brother Robert run a fund giving grants to the children of those they deem "political prisoners," such as convicted cop killer Mumia Abu-Jamal. Ironically, if there was any government that staged show trials for political ends, it was the government for which the Rosenbergs gave up their lives, that of the former Soviet Union.

This week, the Meeropols made it clear to the New York Times that they still believe the information their father passed to the Russians was not terribly significant, that the judge and the prosecutors in their parents' case were guilty of misconduct, and that neither Julius nor Ethel should have been given the death penalty for their crimes.

On the subject of their mother, the Meeropols have a point. In another development last week, a federal court judge in New York released previously sealed grand jury testimony of key witnesses in the case, including that of Ruth Greenglass, Julius' sister-in-law. It turns out that a key part of her testimony for the prosecution -- that Ethel had typed up notes for her husband to hand to the Soviets -- was most likely concocted.

That doesn't mean that Ethel was innocent -- indeed, the preponderance of the evidence suggests she was not. But what is clear is that in seeking to get the defendants to confess to Soviet espionage, the prosecutors overstepped bounds and enhanced testimony to guarantee a conviction. Americans should have no problem acknowledging when such judicial transgressions take place, and in concluding that the execution of Ethel was a miscarriage of justice.

Nevertheless, after Sobell's confession of guilt, all other conspiracy theories about the Rosenberg case should come to an end. A pillar of the left-wing culture of grievance has been finally shattered. The Rosenbergs were actual and dangerous Soviet spies. It is time the ranks of the left acknowledge that the United States had (and has) real enemies and that finding and prosecuting them is not evidence of repression.

Ronald Radosh, an emeritus professor of history at City University of New York and an adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, is the coauthor of "The Rosenberg File."
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 10:52 am
@McGentrix,
Well that just shut everybody up, didn't it. But what about this bit?

Quote:
On the subject of their mother, the Meeropols have a point. In another development last week, a federal court judge in New York released previously sealed grand jury testimony of key witnesses in the case, including that of Ruth Greenglass, Julius' sister-in-law. It turns out that a key part of her testimony for the prosecution -- that Ethel had typed up notes for her husband to hand to the Soviets -- was most likely concocted.

That doesn't mean that Ethel was innocent -- indeed, the preponderance of the evidence suggests she was not. But what is clear is that in seeking to get the defendants to confess to Soviet espionage, the prosecutors overstepped bounds and enhanced testimony to guarantee a conviction. Americans should have no problem acknowledging when such judicial transgressions take place, and in concluding that the execution of Ethel was a miscarriage of justice.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 11:14 pm
@FreeDuck,
Quote:
Fortunately,
being a communist is not actually against the law,
and it certainly is not punishable by death.

Well, it was FORTUNATE enuf for ME: I was CHEERING in 1953.


I know that it was also FORTUNATE enuf for the Rosenbergs,
in that the state of their health, is just PERFECT, as it is now.
It has been, since we fried them.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Sep, 2008 11:16 pm
I 've never liked communists much.





David
Steve 41oo
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Sep, 2008 03:17 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
you're sick
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Sep, 2008 01:44 am
@Steve 41oo,
I 'm sick of U. IGNORE
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2008 09:29 am
@OmSigDAVID,
well I hope you feel better soon

regarding communists

you "never liked them much",

so you liked them a bit, by your own admission.

How much David? You can confess here, you are among friends. Mostly.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, EVERYONE! - Discussion by OmSigDAVID
WIND AND WATER - Discussion by Setanta
Who ordered the construction of the Berlin Wall? - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
True version of Vlad Dracula, 15'th century - Discussion by gungasnake
ONE SMALL STEP . . . - Discussion by Setanta
History of Gun Control - Discussion by gungasnake
Where did our notion of a 'scholar' come from? - Discussion by TuringEquivalent
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.88 seconds on 12/26/2024 at 06:12:07