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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jan, 2012 04:20 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
I disagree that either loses status as a "real science" by being used in the same sentence
I understand your position I just dont share it.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jan, 2012 04:29 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:
I disagree that either loses status as a "real science" by being used in the same sentence
I understand your position I just dont share it.

The fortunate thing for us both is that they are always under investigation. Even if we don't agree, we agree that given time, we can only learn more.

A
R
T
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jan, 2012 04:31 pm
@farmerman,
I totally agree; christians believe their's is the only true religion, but fail to realize people of all religions have faith in their religion as being the only one.

The interesting aspect of christianity is god's command against idol worship. Guess what? Maybe 100% of their churches have them.



0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jan, 2012 04:31 pm
@failures art,
I try to saty out of thee Climate change arguments because, rather than engaging in a science debate, each side usually defaults to sounding like H2O man.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jan, 2012 05:30 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Evangelical and Fundamentl religions are uusully bsed upon ignorance of other cultures.


There you go again fm. Same trick. It does have to assume other people are stupid you know.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jan, 2012 05:31 pm
@spendius,
It does, and proven by facts of science.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jan, 2012 05:40 pm
@spendius,
I see you have made peace on the GW front. We wouldn't want fm calling fa an idiot and fa calling fm an idiot when they are both agreed that Christianity is an unwarranted intrusion on their animal natures.

And certainly not those of us who take these important matters seriously.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jan, 2012 05:57 pm
@spendius,
Only in your wet dreams.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jan, 2012 06:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You don't seem particularly interested in being Abled to Know ci. Your posts are the same now as they were years ago.

You're running on the spot.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jan, 2012 06:05 pm
@spendius,
You're the one who has not advanced any further than "years ago." Your prose might change with new inclusion of other writers and imagery, but the message is static.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Jan, 2012 06:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I agreed with you once. I'm younger than that now.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 06:02 am
INDIANA UPDATE
Quote:
Indiana ACLU says teaching creationism unconstitutional
(Associated Press, January 26, 2012)

The American Civil Liberties Union of Indiana's top lawyer said Thursday that a bill pending that would allow schools to teach creationism in science classes clearly violates the U.S. Constitution and invites legal challenges.

U.S. Supreme Court precedents "going back many years" have established the unconstitutionality of teaching creationism in public schools, Ken Falk said.

"The idea that somehow our state legislature can trump the Constitution just doesn't make sense," Falk said in a news release issued by the ACLU. "When lawmakers propose legislation they clearly know will end up in the courts, it wastes valuable time and resources, disrespects the legislative process and confuses an already complicated issue."

The Senate Education Committee voted 8-2 Wednesday to send the bill before the full Senate despite experts and even some senators saying teaching creationism likely would be ruled unconstitutional if challenged in court. The bill's prospects for advancing to the House weren't certain Thursday. Next Wednesday is the deadline for bills originating in the Senate to win approval from the full chamber.

Falk said the U.S. Supreme Court in its 1987 case Edwards v. Aguillard struck down a Louisiana statute that required instruction on evolution to be accompanied by teaching on "creation science." The court found that the Louisiana statute had no identifiable secular purpose, but that the "pre-eminent purpose of the Louisiana Legislature was clearly to advance the religious viewpoint that a supernatural being created humankind."

In committee debate Wednesday, Sen. Scott Schneider, R-Indianapolis, said there are legitimate questions about the theory of evolution and that many scientists agree with the concept of intelligent design, the theory that life on Earth is so complex it was guided by an intelligent higher power.

"What are we afraid of? Allowing an option for students including creation science as opposed to limiting their exposure?" Schneider said.

Senate Education Chairman Dennis Kruse, R-Auburn, said he knew of nothing in state law that prohibits public schools from teaching creationism. He said he sponsored the bill because he believes creationism should be taught among the theories on the development of life and that the proposal wouldn't force any changes in schools teaching evolution.

Some committee members suggested that they would support amending the bill in the full Senate to instead encourage schools to teach about the world's religions in literature or history classes. Sen. Luke Kenley, R-Noblesville, voted in favor of the bill even though it called its current form a "lawyer's dream."

Falk said that since public school curriculum must always serve a secular educational purpose, religion can be taught if the purpose is to examine religion's role in history, art, literature, society or other secular subjects. He said religion can only be taught in an objective, unbiased manner that does not promote or criticize any particular religion or set of beliefs.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 06:12 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Some committee members suggested that they would support amending the bill in the full Senate to instead encourage schools to teach about the world's religions in literature or history classes. Sen. Luke Kenley, R-Noblesville, voted in favor of the bill even though it called its current form a "lawyer's dream."

Falk said that since public school curriculum must always serve a secular educational purpose, religion can be taught if the purpose is to examine religion's role in history, art, literature, society or other secular subjects. He said religion can only be taught in an objective, unbiased manner that does not promote or criticize any particular religion or set of beliefs.
This is a model that could have some merit .First off, it could supplement our abysmal history curriculem by making it wider in focus. I am seeing several school districts in Pa that already have these kinds of topics and units in their curriculum.

Dont shoot yourself just yet Wandel, there may be some hope.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 08:55 am
@farmerman,
What's the situation with the Amish fm?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 11:12 am
@spendius,
they seem to do fine? What is your question?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 12:00 pm
@farmerman,
Do they teach evolution? What about on Tribal reservations? And in Islamic schools.

If a grounding in evolutionism, which I have questioned both the logicality and morality of without rebuttal, is necessary to get accreditation then isn't a back door exclusion going to take place.

These big cases seem to be occurring in remote regions. Dover-- popn. about 2000. Indiana 6.5 million. Dayton Tenn. 7000.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 12:06 pm
@spendius,
spendi, Most just teach the "Sciences" that includes biology, anthropology, paleontology, chemistry, geology, etc. that "proves" evolution.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 12:14 pm
@spendius,
Arthur Koestler said that the logical positivists, evolutionists, existentialists, empiricists, humanists et al, resembled seducers who chicken out at the bedroom door.

Being more of a delicate disposition I prefer half-baked. There's an inexpugnable aroma about it all of polite drawing rooms. These things are not only innocuous but they try to be.

They have no wish to consider how radical a social revolution would be required if a careful scrutiny, from the viewpoint of verification, of our general ideas and convictions was to take place.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 01:44 pm
@spendius,
I certainly understand why you fawn over every word that the famous misogynysts of history would utter. They are all, like you, all vines and no taters
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2012 02:21 pm
@farmerman,
I have never come across anybody in my entire life who has less taters that you fm. You never answer a question.

You never even try to rebut my posts. You just waffle. Like that tripe. From start to finish.

It doesn't matter if Donald Duck said it. It's true. You do resemble the seducer who chickens at the bedroom door. When asked to come up and see the evolutionist's bedsheets you go all distracted like in a vainly superior fashion.

We discovered who the misogynists are with the "wild monkey sex" jibe. I've read Darkness At Noon and The Sleepwalkers (twice) and I never detected any misogyny.

What makes you think otherwise?
 

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