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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 06:32 am
@spendius,
many others say the same thing. Nothing going opn here, move along
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 07:02 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
are you talking to yourself again? Dont be so hard , youll get it sooner or later.


Do you mind fm?? This thread, this site, is not one of your classrooms or audience of cowed acolytes. Questions raised on here are not answered by grown ups in such a silly and useless manner.

It is obviously silly and useless because the riposte, a reflex blurt really, can be used to deal with any question. It's a cheapskate method of ignoring questions. Wonderfully unscientific.

It signifies bigotry up in lights. Nobody gets it but you is flat out bigotry.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 07:11 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
many others say the same thing. Nothing going opn here, move along


Aah aah!! Oh oh!! So you don't wish to discuss the unveiling of Isis? Well--there's a thing!! Undercover misogynist eh? and sticking that label on others to hide it with mealy-mouthed words. And some silly females actually believe you. Or act like they do for social reasons.

It is easy to re-open the Temple of Isis once it has been forgotten why it was closed.

0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 07:59 am
@farmerman,
Its not my week to feed spendi.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 08:31 am
Quote:
UK Scientists Find 'Lost' Darwin Fossils
(By CASSANDRA VINOGRAD, Associated Press, January 17, 2012)

British scientists have found scores of fossils the great evolutionary theorist Charles Darwin and his peers collected but that had been lost for more than 150 years.

Dr. Howard Falcon-Lang, a paleontologist at Royal Holloway, University of London, said Tuesday that he stumbled upon the glass slides containing the fossils in an old wooden cabinet that had been shoved in a "gloomy corner" of the massive, drafty British Geological Survey.

Using a flashlight to peer into the drawers and hold up a slide, Falcon-Lang saw one of the first specimens he had picked up was labeled 'C. Darwin Esq."

"It took me a while just to convince myself that it was Darwin's signature on the slide," the paleontologist said, adding he soon realized it was a "quite important and overlooked" specimen.

He described the feeling of seeing that famous signature as "a heart in your mouth situation," saying he wondering "Goodness, what have I discovered!"

Falcon-Lang's find was a collection of 314 slides of specimens collected by Darwin and other members of his inner circle, including John Hooker — a botanist and dear friend of Darwin — and the Rev. John Henslow, Darwin's mentor at Cambridge, whose daughter later married Hooker.

Falcon-Lang said the unearthed fossils — lost for 165 years — show there is more to learn from a period of history scientists thought they knew well.

"To find a treasure trove of lost Darwin specimens from the Beagle voyage is just extraordinary," Falcon-Lang added. "We can see there's more to learn. There are a lot of very, very significant fossils in there that we didn't know existed."

He said one of the most "bizarre" slides came from Hooker's collection — a specimen of prototaxites, a 400 million-year-old tree-sized fungi.

Hooker had assembled the collection of slides while briefly working for the British Geological Survey in 1846, according to Royal Holloway, University of London.

The slides — "stunning works of art," according to Falcon-Lang — contain bits of fossil wood and plants ground into thin sheets and affixed to glass in order to be studied under microscopes. Some of the slides are half a foot long (15 centimeters), "great big chunks of glass," Falcon-Lang said.

"How these things got overlooked for so long is a bit of a mystery itself," he mused, speculating that perhaps it was because Darwin was not widely known in 1846 so the collection might not have been given "the proper curatorial care."

Royal Holloway, University of London said the fossils were 'lost' because Hooker failed to number them in the formal "specimen register" before setting out on an expedition to the Himalayas. In 1851, the "unregistered" fossils were moved to the Museum of Practical Geology in Piccadilly before being transferred to the South Kensington's Geological Museum in 1935 and then to the British Geological Survey's headquarters near Nottingham 50 years later, the university said.

The discovery was made in April, but it has taken "a long time" to figure out the provenance of the slides and photograph all of them, Falcon-Lang said. The slides have now been photographed and will be made available to the public through a new online museum exhibit opening Tuesday.

Falcon-Lang expects great scientific papers to emerge from the discovery.

"There are some real gems in this collection that are going to contribute to ongoing science."

Dr. John Ludden, executive director of the Geological Survey, called the find a "remarkable" discovery.

"It really makes one wonder what else might be hiding in our collections," he said.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 08:56 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

thanks FA. How has Nixon been handling his admin overall? Does he appear to be akeeper or is he vulnerable ?

I can't say. I don't live in Missouri anymore, and I haven't followed his performance. The only MO politicians I watch these days are (R) Roy Blunt and (D) Claire McCaskill.

A
R
T
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 10:19 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
"It really makes one wonder what else might be hiding in our collections," he said.


Oh yes!! Another veil which has a hint of promise for those who get off on specimens of 400 million-year-old tree-sized fungi. That's not "bizarre". It's kinky.

Might it be said that the hypothesis that the fungi had been collected off a rotting tree in a wood near Down, dried in an airing cupboard, roasted on an open fire, sliced and mounted is not only an unverified hypothesis but is an unverifiable one. Certainly anyone proceeding in such an understandable manner at that time probably thought so. And the institutional defence mechanisms of today would be tempted to conceal a verification of such an outlandish hypothesis if our modern instruments showed it to have scientific traction.

It is perhaps better to remain agnostic about a matter which is unverifiable and of no direct bearing on social structures.

What would come crashing down if it turned out the lifting of the veil verified the hypothesis by revealing what is hiding in the collection?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 10:31 am
@spendius,
Gee!! It's Pascal's Wager in reverse. There is nothing to be gained scientifically, apart from the jobs and permission to compose articles for Nature magazine, from examining the collections, and there is everything to lose.

DARWIN FAKED FOSSILS scream the tabloids.

Unless people are so insecure about the theory of evolution that they need to go on proving it time after time like a lady who is insecure about her looks continually examining whichever aspect of her looks she is insecure about in mirrors.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 11:01 am
@spendius,
Tabloids? They sell newspapers don't they? LOL
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 11:12 am
@wandeljw,
The Museum of Practical Geology is located just up the square from the Mueum of 'Setting Fire to your Hair With Theories of Impractical Geology"
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 11:29 am
@failures art,
Speaking of Missouri reminded me that I meant to ask fm about the discovery and explorations of conical-shaped mounds in the forested bluffs from where the Missouri can be overlooked by Judge E.P. West, an account of which appeared in the Kansas City Times in the 1870s and which purported to reveal a prehistoric race of giants which some have taken to corroborate aspects of the Book of Genesis.

Similar burial mounds have been found in Tennessee, Missippi and Lousiana.

The bones were handed into the custody of a Dr. Foe of Main Street.

Was it a spoof fm? Some scientists are fond of fogs of fancy flummeries in the service of ascertaining how far innocent gullibility has permeated the seminaries of the Higher Learning. Dr Brian Cox seems to have mesmerised himself.
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 11:57 am
@spendius,
But, spendius dear, it is your contention, is it not, that what we must have in order for there to be order is order divined (no pun intended) by religious precepts?

We already have religiosity in abundance, yet there are all those items you listed -abortion, divorce, pre-marital sex, adultery, homosexuality, deficits you can't pay, pornography- (only one of which I myself find any fault with, guess which one?) .

Why hasn't the light of Jesus outshown these purported evils?

How much closer to the theocracy they have in Iran must we be in order for you to sleep better at night?

Joe(I sleep fine.)Nation
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 12:16 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Speaking of Missouri reminded me that I meant to ask fm about the discovery and explorations of conical-shaped mounds in the forested bluffs from where the Missouri can be overlooked by Judge E.P. West, an account of which appeared in the Kansas City Times in the 1870s and which purported to reveal a prehistoric race of giants which some have taken to corroborate aspects of the Book of Genesis
Maybe if youd try in English, I could answer.

How can one overlook the Missouri? Its ancient course is the biggest river in continental US. Was jufge West blind that he overlooked it?

From some of spendis latest posts here and elsewhere I suspect that hes been dipping into "Isis Unveiled"
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 12:23 pm
@Joe Nation,
If I was close to the situation in Iran I would be planning to slip over the border with a view to getting a job washing dishes in a Bagram mess hall and hoping to worm my way over the ocean to watch the Giants play the 49ers at the Lucas Oil Stadium in Indiana and melt away into the population.

Quote:
Why hasn't the light of Jesus outshown these purported evils?


I said nothing about evils. I was merely observing what you had got. Judgements I leave to others except with regard to abortion.

Quote:
it is your contention, is it not, that what we must have in order for there to be order is order divined (no pun intended) by religious precepts?


History seems to support the contention in regard to every known organisation of society outside of small, nomadic hunting and gathering groups.



0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jan, 2012 12:34 pm
@farmerman,
I was careful to say "from where the Missouri can be overlooked" because the KC Times report said that the bluffs overlooked the river and I know bluffs can't overlook anything. And I didn't say that the position of the mounds was the only place from where the river can be overlooked.

You flannel fan is on the flying flyshit setting again. I just wondered if it was a spoof.

I often dip into Isis Unveiled. I have a very nicely tooled 2 volume copy of it published in Passadena.

"It's no go the Yogi Man,
Its no go Blavatsky.
All we want is a bank balance
And a bit of skirt in a taxi."
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2012 06:21 am
OKLAHOMA UPDATE
Quote:
Legislature faces more than 2,000 bills, resolutions
(By WAYNE GREENE, Tulsa World, January 21, 2012)

OKLAHOMA CITY - Oklahoma lawmakers will consider 2,005 new pieces of legislation this year.

Thursday was the deadline for legislators to file bills to be considered during the legislative session, which opens Feb. 6.

State House members filed 962 bills and 26 joint resolutions. Senate members filed 972 bills and 45 joint resolutions.

******************************************************************

Senate Bill 1742 by Sen. Josh Brecheen, R-Coalgate, would let science teachers use "supplemental" educational materials in addition to standard science textbooks regarding controversial issues. The bill specifies that it does not promote any religious doctrine, but the National Center for Science Education describes it as an attack on the teaching of evolution and climate change.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2012 06:26 am
@wandeljw,
I wish they wouldnt conflate evolution with anthropogenic climate change. The climate change issue has solid numbers of reputable scientists who are quite skeptical of the relationship . They say its an unproven association . Id hate evolution science to get mixed in with global warming . That pisses me off cause evolution could lose status as a "real science" .
Theres no real science that diputes evolution. There IS real science that Disputes man- induced climate hange .
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2012 06:30 am
@farmerman,
It seems that NCSE is now linking the two issues. I personally wish that they would concentrate on the teaching of evolution.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2012 06:31 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
but the National Center for Science Education describes it as an attack on the teaching of evolution and climate change.


A voice crying from behind barricades answerable to nobody and self appointed. Get them to the hustings.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Jan, 2012 06:36 am
@wandeljw,
I agree about the linking. Ive been a memebr of NCSE and have written them in the past that they are dancing dangeourly close to losing support of many geologists who are more climate savvy than are many climatologists.
0 Replies
 
 

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