61
   

Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
rosborne979
 
  3  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 06:46 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
u re quite wrong.

He's not entirely wrong. He's just telling you what he's seen, and I've seen the same thing. For a lot of people God (the 6 day creation, old man with a beard, Adam and Eve, GOD) is a part of their daily life, and the understanding of science is not. They don't think about science, they don't try to understand it, they're not interested. And they pass that on to their kids. Science for them is just a foil against which they hone their skills at re-preaching what they've heard.

Of course people are different, and of course not all Christians believe the same thing, but in my direct experience, a large percentage of the people I meed down south have a core belief structure dominated by scripture and the interpretation their preacher gives them, and minimally influenced by science.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 06:51 am
@rosborne979,
I believe you are correct. I see it every day.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 07:15 am
DISCOVERY INSTITUTE'S VIEW OF REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES
Quote:
Among GOP Contenders, Evolution is an Issue
(Evolution News & Views, August 26, 2011)

This is getting...interesting. Former Utah governor Jon Huntsman hit back at Rick Perry of Texas following Perry's comment about evolutionary theory having "some gaps in it." Mr. Huntsman tweeted, "To be clear I believe in evolution and trust scientists on global warming. Call me crazy." Clearly he is strategically positioning himself to capture the entire constituency of liberal Republican Mormons. We've never met any, but there must be a few.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 08:49 am
@rosborne979,
It does seem that most Christians are taught that reason is the enemy of faith so they choose to be the enemy of reason.

This may be exaggerating a bit but not by much when it comes to Christian faith here in north east Florida!

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 02:51 pm
@rosborne979,
I took rl's comment to be a generalized statement about religions DENIAL of evolution. I dont deny that there are huge numbers who buy into that crap, I merely wantede rl to understand that its really a MINORITY position from church leadership.
The funny thing is that while Lutherans and CAtholic (etc) churches embrace nat selection and evidence of evolution (and teach ot in their private colleges), some of their laity still buy into Creationist thinking. Theres really no effort on behalf of the more progressive cristian sects to correct this thinking.

I want rl to read what is actually said by church leadership and "deacons" about evolution and science in general.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 02:59 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
It does seem that most Christians are taught that reason is the enemy of faith so they choose to be the enemy of reason.
YOU are cherry picking. Thats not true. <amy Christian sects actually sponsor research in evolutionary genetics , paleontology, and evolution/development.

The majority of the AMerican Christian sects preach that
"God gave us a brain to be involved in making advances in medicine and science. To deny this is a sin"

I see the hillbillies and snake handlers in my work in TEnnessee and West Virginia. I dont make any generalizations about "enemies to reason". When it occurs, its kinda depressing . However, for every snake handler and holy rollwer, I see some of the most advanced genetics research at Notre Dame and Brigham Young,

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 03:00 pm
@farmerman,
I did a research and the only religions that I could find preaching about evolution from the pulpit were non Catholics, and they were preaching anti evolution!

I did find out that someone who I seem to admire is a Catholic!

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 03:07 pm
@farmerman,
I do apologize because I do not mean to put people down but when they speak about beliefs that they have learned from their culture I have to admit that they seem to be speaking of things that we really do not know and I also think that they are engaging in something that is normal but that does not make it factual!
You still seem to be pointing out how the church has evolved because the church may have at one time persecuted you for speaking out about the things you do!
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 03:22 pm
@reasoning logic,
Hes the one I told you to get some pubs from.
Remember, the internet is not a cross section of thinking. It is heavily loaded with crap paid for by anti science Fundamentalist Christians.

I dont really see any benefit discussing such points, its immeterial to me whether you want to dig deeper into what the majpority of Christian religions have to say from their leadership.
Preaching science from the pulpit has little value as moral lessons. When I was quite young the Catholic Church posted the Popese position on science and evolution in particluar. They dont keep flooding the airways with evo preaching because science doesnt meed any backup from a pulpit.
Creationists and other anti-science Fundamentalist religions need to keep pushing this issue to bash the evidence. I listened to "rev Poe" I found him a candidate for Saturday Night Live. His arguments dont make sense and they are just there as high drama.

"Molecules didn assemble into a man" as he wants his flock to believe. He is purposely skipping the factual content because it may get over his head and not allow him to come up with a homely homily.

Finding Youtube sited that are tailored to Craetiomnist and ID crap is easy, Its all over, but remember, this has nothing to do with reality. Its like all thoise penis extender ads on the internet or the ads on late night cable TV that tell you how to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month by working from home.
Youve gotta get a better bullshit detector and not worry about what some of these ministers are preaching. I still teach at the graduate level and many of my students love to disembowel some of these pesudo scientific arguments for Creation and ID (The Creationists have a sophisticated sounding "technical literature" ).
Its really not too difficult when armed with evidence and a working knowledge about the sciences (not only geology but physics, chemistry, biology and mathematics). The arguments of the Creationists are simplistic and terribly unfactyual. They are mostly fraud and chocked full of untruth. However that doesnt prevent masses of people from buying into it.

I think the acceptance of Evolution in our country will natuarally be a s;ow process because our Constitution permits us all to act like total morons in the name of a God. Thats a fact and theres nothing we can do about it except to maintain vigilance so that this doesnt spread like a virus over our ability to function as a reasonably advanced culture.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 03:37 pm
@farmerman,
Rev Poe is a paleontologist in disguise if I am not mistaken! He is only sharing a point of view that many of us see about preachers. Not all preachers! He is Aronra

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 03:39 pm
@reasoning logic,
SO it was a comedy act after all? I sorta got an inkling. I often inkle










0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 03:54 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Rev Poe is a paleontologist in disguise if I am not mistaken!
Do you have a source for that? Id love to send him a note His act was totally in synch with what Creationists say and his logic was troublingly funny.

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Aug, 2011 05:21 pm
@farmerman,
I have seen other videos that state that Rev Ernest Poe is AronRa but I have not seen where he has confirmed that!
I will add a link from AronRa's site that has the Rev in it and another video from another site that claims that they are one in the same!

It seems very difficult for me to find the evidence that I am looking for at times!





0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 09:22 am
Quote:
Jon Huntsman and Evolution: A Missed Opportunity
(Michael Zimmerman, Huffington Post, August 29, 2011)

It's not often that there's good news coming out of the Republican Party -- for science in general or for evolution in particular. That pattern was broken on Aug. 18, when GOP presidential candidate Jon Huntsman took to Twitter to announce: "To be clear. I believe in evolution and trust scientists on global warming. Call me crazy."

As the head of The Clergy Letter Project, an organization of more than 13,000 clergy and 1,000 scientists who promote the teaching of evolution -- and work for a nuanced understanding of the relationship between religion and science -- I was delighted and immediately thought that I should do a profile of Governor Huntsman for my HuffPost series "Profiles in (Evolutionary) Courage."

I never thought that it would be all but impossible to write such a piece. But now, well over a week later, and without anyone in the Huntsman campaign willing to return phone calls or emails, I've come to the conclusion that I cannot write what I intended. Instead of learning more about Huntsman and what drives his respect for science, I'm beginning to understand why his campaign is mired in last place amid a non-distinguished field. As of today's Real Clear Politics poll, Huntsman's support is running 10-fold behind Rick Perry's (20 percent to 2 percent), significantly behind Michele Bachmann's (9 percent to 2 percent) and even a bit further behind the non-candidacy of Sarah Palin (11 percent to 2 percent). Amazingly, even Herman Cain's polling numbers (5 percent) are two and a half times better. Herman Cain!

Please don't misunderstand me. I recognize that I'm not a major media figure. Indeed, I recognize that I'm not even a minor media figure. However, the pieces I write for The Huffington Post are well read and receive hundreds, and often thousands, of comments. To quote Huntsman, "call me crazy!" but I thought that a positive piece elaborating on his tweet would be seen as a positive bit of media attention. Apparently not.

My calls to his campaign merely yielded a referral to an email address. My emails to his campaign remain unanswered. In an attempt to work a back channel, I contacted Eric Holcomb, the Chair of the Indiana Republican Party. Eric immediately responded enthusiastically and said that he would pass my message along to friends in the Huntsman campaign. Although I'm confident that he did so, no one has gotten back to me.

So, after more than a week of phone calls and emails, I've been unable to have any questions answered. My efforts have not generated a single acknowledgement that I even exist. Well, that's not exactly true! About 10 hours after sending an email to a generic address on the Huntsman website, I received three copies of a solicitation from the Republican Party of Pennsylvania. Coincidence? Could be, but I doubt it.

The thing is, exploring what brought Jon Huntsman to his position on science, a position so dramatically at odds with the rest of his party, is not a trivial matter. Scientific knowledge need not -- and should not -- be a political issue and yet it has become just that within the Republican presidential field.

Huntsman himself explained the importance of science to Jake Tapper on ABC's This Week on the Sunday following his tweet: "The minute that the Republican Party becomes the party -- the anti-science party -- we have a huge problem. We lose a whole lot of people who would otherwise allow us to win the election in 2012. When we take a position that isn't willing to embrace evolution, when we take a position that basically runs counter to what 98 of 100 climate scientists have said, what the National Academy of Science has said about what is causing climate change and man's contribution to it, I think we find ourselves on the wrong side of science, and, therefore, in a losing position. The Republican Party has to remember that we're drawing from traditions that go back as far as Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, President Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and Bush. And we've got a lot of traditions to draw upon. But I can't remember a time in our history where we actually were willing to shun science and become a party that was antithetical to science. I'm not sure that's good for our future, and it's not a winning formula."

Huntsman is absolutely correct. It is neither good politics nor good public policy for one of the country's major political parties to shun science. Study after study has reached two consistent conclusions: First, the United States continues to lose its scientific edge. Second, the economic consequences associated with our collapsing scientific infrastructure are huge.

Evolutionary theory is as well understood a scientific theory as any and far better than most. Rejecting it on political grounds in an attempt to pander to a small but very vocal subset of the population that believes evolution and religious conviction cannot be compatible is a disgrace, and it distorts the public's understanding of what science actually is.

I am absolutely delighted that Jon Huntsman has opted to clearly state his support for both science and evolution, and I wish I could have been in a position to more fully explore the reasons for his actions. Given the current nature of the Republican Party, it was courageous of him to be as outspoken as he has been. However, if he has any hope of moving up from last place in the race, I suspect that his staff is going to have to be more willing to respond to requests for information about his positions. And since any campaign staff ultimately takes its orders from the top, I can't help but wonder about the direction Huntsman is providing.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Aug, 2011 10:20 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
I took rl's comment to be a generalized statement about religions DENIAL of evolution. I dont deny that there are huge numbers who buy into that crap, I merely wantede rl to understand that its really a MINORITY position from church leadership.

It seems to me that high level leadership says the right things. But I don't get the feeling that they are going out of their way to try to push that message down to the local levels very well.

Also, I can't say that I've had much experience with southern catholics and how they handle science/evolution within their belief structure. Most of my experience comes from exposure to southern baptists, and I have to admit that I don't even know who represents Southern Baptists as a high level leader, so I don't know what They/He are taking as a position.

I know the Vatican's stance on Science/Religion and Evolution, but I don't know what the "Official" position of the Southern Baptists is. And more importantly, if the leadership of the Southern Baptists are taking a stance similar to the Vatican, then they sure aren't getting their message down the ranks very well.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2011 01:25 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
It seems to me that high level leadership says the right things. But I don't get the feeling that they are going out of their way to try to push that message down to the local levels very well.


That's because the HLL know that the "local levels" won't buy it and that the HLL will have cut deals anyway to accept it themselves because in order to be in the HLL it is necessary to not give two fucks whether the universe popped out of an Easter Egg, up and running, three weeks ago, which, with God being omnipotent, cannot be ruled out no matter how ridiculous it might seem.

Whether the misunderstanding of the "reality" of the situation is naive or a cynical ploy I don't know but there is a very large misunderstanding of the situation being paraded on here.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Aug, 2011 08:46 am
Quote:
Creationism not fit topic to teach
(By Patrick Seick | THE EASTERN ECHO | August 30, 2011)

“Should public schools teach evolution?”

This was the prompt provided to 51 delegates in a Miss USA 2011 interview. As amusing as it was to watch the beautiful women struggle with the question, their answers indicated more that they were American rather than stereotypical beauty queens.

Most responded to the question with a qualified yes, being sure to flaunt Christian credentials in the process. The smiling faces mustered up the compromising, accommodating answer: “Both sides of the story” should be offered for students (in reference to Biblical creationism).

The caveat here is the Miss USA pageant is, at some level, a popularity contest, so the crown hopefuls are sure to give the answer they suspect is most wanted by the American public.

As referenced in a 2009 Pew Research Study, 63 percent of Americans believe in the “both-sides-of-the-story” approach. The study goes on to equate evolution with gravity in terms of scientific validity and notes a vast majority of the nation’s scientists agree evolution is a sound theory.

For scientists, as the aforementioned study explains, a theory is “an established explanation for a natural phenomenon… that has repeatedly been tested through observation and experimentation.”

Of course, if certain Americans are insistent upon offering creationism alongside evolution in the classroom, then they must admit they are tyrannical, hypocritical, quixotic, or some combination of the three.

These “accomodationists” assert their faith-based creation narrative is the only one deserving of a place in the classroom while denying other similarly non-scientific ones. But if one creation story is included in the curriculum, then all such narratives should be taught – an impossible task given the hundreds that are available.

Aside from that sticky situation in which creationism supporters and apologists find themselves, there are Constitutional concerns.

The teaching of creationism/intelligent design in a state institution is an assault on the secular law of the land, particularly the First Amendment and what Thomas Jefferson christened a “wall of separation between church and State.” That was an opinion echoed by the Supreme Court in Edwards v. Aguillard and Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District.

Shockingly, most public school biology teachers across the nation are still hesitant to deny creationism and intelligent design a place in the classroom. A January 2011 Wired Science article reports that 13 percent of high school biology teachers explicitly endorse creationism (or intelligent design, noting it as equally as unscientific), 28 percent base their lesson plans solely on evolution and 60 percent entirely avoid choosing sides.

The article continues by expressing concerns that creationism, even presenting it alongside evolution, undermines scientific literacy and the scientific method.

Although it would be an easy solution, one cannot completely blame the teachers. It’s easy to see their desire to be cautious. They are caught in the middle of a clash where theology, politics, science and popular opinion are involved. Ultimately, we must remind ourselves teachers are not theologians or politicians.

A 2006 National Geographic study notes the issue of evolution is far more politicized in the United States than in any Western European nation or Japan, where teaching evolution is commonplace.

Along these lines, it should not surprise us United States citizens were more likely to reject the theory of evolution than all other 32 nations in the study besides Turkey. In order to fully grasp the lunacy of that statement, replace “evolution” with “gravity” in the previous sentence.

In her 2011 Miss USA evolution interview, Miss California, Alyssa Campanella, said, “Well I was taught evolution in my high school growing up and I do believe in it, and I mean, I’m a huge science geek,” implying a rare unabashed support for teaching evolution in the classroom. Miss California also won the pageant. Perhaps, then, a glimmer of hope is reflected off the beauty queen’s crown.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Aug, 2011 09:49 am
@wandeljw,
Why do you persist wande in aggravating us all with such obviously infantile rubbish.

The use of the term "beautiful women" to describe what are self evidently the most horrid and ridiculous specimens of the female sex being a case in point. Seick is the perfect name for a chap who will stoop to such a level of insult to the ladies of our acquantaince.

Would you care to justify his usage wande because after all you are quoting the silly ****** at us.

And only a complete idiot, or someone believing himself to be addressing an audience of complete idiots, would ever dream of equating evolution theory with the theory of gravitation. That is because, as I have explained many times, the theory of gravity cannot be used to justify sexual licentiousness, abortion, divorce, perversion, all round anti-social depravity, revolution, the validity of the might is right nonsense, as well as providing grounds for a full frontal attack on Christian tradition and all the works of art and science derived from that tradition. The theory of evolution not only supports all those anarchic forces but has no alternative than to do so because they are the logical outcome of it. Anyone who supports teaching the theory of evolution is locically committed to supporting sexual licentiousness and the rest of the list provided above.

In actual fact, the whole point of ramming evolution theory up the schoolkids asses, and in the vast bulk of cases, the non-nerd element, un-neccessarily, is to promote those very things so that Media will have an endless supply of disgusting stories to relate in the service of selling flattened out wood pulp with ink inserts, the legal profession will have many more domestic tribulations to adjudicate upon and certain persons can replace Christians in positions of authority. The claim that teaching evolution to schoolchildren by dictat will somehow increase the scientific aptitude of the population is too ridiculous to contemplate when it is plain as day that those who promote such an insidious doctrine haven't got a scientific bone in their bodies, can't even use their native language properly and hide away from any arguments that call into question their hopeless and self-defeating insistence on ordering us all around like the bunch of little Hitlers they all so obviously are.

The separation of Church and State, a lip service manifestation if ever there was one, is designed to protect the Church from the State.

And The Eastern Echo hardly rates as a batsqueak in terms of influence.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself wande for foisting such drivel on a thread as prestigious as this one is. Do you really think that Ms Alyssa Campanella's gratuitious assertion that she is a "huge science geek", a laughable idea at best, is scientific proof that the kids should be exposed to the theory of untrammelled carnality? Do you?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Aug, 2011 11:35 am
@spendius,
Quote:
In actual fact, the whole point of ramming evolution theory up the schoolkids asses


Are you starting to write lesson plans now?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Aug, 2011 11:39 am
@spendius,
I am sorry that I never give you a straight answer, spendi, but you are unintentionally hilarious.
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 07/17/2025 at 01:27:50