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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 02:42 pm
@reasoning logic,
She does do a good job, I think I've seen her interviewed on the BBC. Isn't she a Libyan ex-pat?

I did try to look for the sort of music I thought Spendi would like, but in the process I found what is probably the most disturbing video on youtube. I wouldn't insult Spendi by claiming he would like it. It's not very long, but I can't sit through all of it.

reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 02:45 pm
@izzythepush,
I do not know anything about her other than that song and I think she does it well!
0 Replies
 
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Jul, 2011 10:17 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Thanks for the enlightening remarks :-)
Glad you got nothing from my son's story, I have 3 son's and 7 grandchildren and it's the exact same story for all of them.. the reason for using Catlick is for exactly what you said... whatever that was meant to mean. Nope tenderarse wouldn't work cause it's my foot that's tender.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 04:57 am
@tenderfoot,
I found out that several of the CReationis "Isntitutes" as well as the Discovery Institute have a national campaign in which they make available Creationist texts and literature to serve as "supplemental information" Apparently this is ok with our state and several others. The presence of books in a class or in a library does not imply learning whats in em. Some of them are geared to the younger kids and several are for the uper grades. In each case, the texts and lit are written with a "scientific defense" in mind. Pandas and PEople still lives (except its a handout for the resource table)
I hope the teachers let these books be but present a case to the students why they are less than science.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 05:21 am
@farmerman,
It makes me wonder whether the natural inclination for most children will be to seek specious answers to their questions or reasonable answers to their questions.

It also makes me wonder if schools would accept free written material on Voodoo and Astrology just because it was free. If and Astrology book were presented as a supplement to Astronomy, how many administrators would object, or even be aware of the incongruity?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 06:05 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
I hope the teachers let these books be but present a case to the students why they are less than science.


Which is tantamount to demanding that the teachers abdicate the responsibilities they have been selected for and that the school hides the books it has bought. Which is really a demand for Christian teachers to be removed from the schools and replaced by atheists who will do fm's bidding.

When outsiders start interfering in schools education flies out of the window.

Don't try counting the crass mistakes in fm's post, which he could correct if he had taken a little trouble. Obviously he thinks any old sloppy presentation is good enough for A2K. His disability is no excuse. It's the normal arrogance of the "know-it-all" scientific atheist whose definition of science is tailored to suit his purposes and who thinks that anybody who disagrees with him is mentally defective.

One day he's worming sheep and the next he instructing the State how it's next generations should be prepared for their future roles as cutting edge scientists. His science is like his tuxedo.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 06:11 am
@spendius,
Actually the annoying thing is the science within the actual science books has to go through a rigorous process before it is accepted to be used in a science book. Yet creationism gets to cut to the front of the line without having to under go any of process that the science had to endure to get there. Typical of religious dogma. Creationism is NOT science and has no purpose being in the science class room period.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 06:21 am
@spendius,
This is your chance - another fan of your favorite marquis posts on this forum; you may want to post a learned commentary in response to his post here:
http://able2know.org/topic/175222-1#post-4682929
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 06:22 am
@rosborne979,
I have told ros before, a few times, that astrology has a scientific basis. He can't accept it because doing so would involve him in getting off his little hobby horse of thinking astrology is what he sees in the newspapers under "Your stars" feechewers.

And I don't think any reasonable person would consider Voodoo in the same light as Biblical scholarship. Voodoo has no history of scientific development whereas Christianity is the source of modern science and all the conveniences ros obviously believes grew upon the trees.

I should imagine that any intelligent atheist would be tearing his hair out seeing his philosophy represented in public by chumps like fm and ros. It's just the "ungodly lusts".
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 06:28 am
@High Seas,
Thanks HS but I must respectfully decline as I know nothing about the subject hawkeye wrote about.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 09:25 am
NEW CONTROVERSY IN SPRINGBORO OHIO
Quote:
A push for creationism gains in Springboro
(By Christopher Magan and Lawrence Budd, Dayton Daily News, July 31, 2011)

Two Springboro school board members are one vote short of having the support on the five-member board to push for “creationism” in classrooms there, which would likely ignite a wider debate on teaching religion in public schools and maybe set up a court fight.

The Ohio Department of Education sets curriculum standards and guidelines, but leaves many decisions about instruction up to local school boards. Courts have been clear on the issue of religion in public schools for decades.

“There is a segment of the population where those ideas are popular,” said Mike Brickner, spokesman for the Ohio chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. “The courts have held every time, you can’t teach creationism in school.”

Kelly Kohls, who was elected in Springboro on a platform of fiscal responsibility two years ago, requested last week the district’s curriculum director look into ways of providing “supplemental” instruction dealing with creationism. Fellow member, Scott Anderson, who was elected with Kohls when the district was struggling financially, supports his colleague’s idea.

“Creationism is a significant part of the history of this country,” Kohls said. “It is an absolutely valid theory and to omit it means we are omitting part of the history of this country.”

The current standoff in Congress over the debt ceiling has elevated the profile of the Tea Party, which emphasizes fiscal conservatism, smaller government and free markets. But socially conservative issues, such as limiting abortion and gun control and pushing for religion in public schools, are also being advocated by those with strong Tea Party credentials.

Kohls is the head of the Warren County Tea Party. Although she said her desire to teach creationism is not directly related to the emerging political movement, it’s not inconsistent with Tea Party ideals.

“My input on creationism has everything with me being a parent and not a member of the Tea Party,” she said. “We are motivated people who want to change the course of this country. Eliminating God from our public lives I think is a mistake and is why we have gone in the direction of spending beyond our means.”

Fellow Tea Party supporters, such as the author of Senate Bill 5, state Sen. Shannon Jones of Clearcreek Twp.; Gov. John Kasich and GOP presidential contender Michelle Bachmann of Minnesota have supported other controversial and socially conservative legislation. Earlier this month Kasich signed into law a bill banning abortions when a doctor determines a fetus can live outside the womb, part of a flurry of anti-abortion bills introduced this year.

Rob Nichols, Kasich’s aide, said the governor’s support of the abortion bill and legislation allowing guns in bars have not changed his focus on improving the state’s economy. “Our attention remains completely fixed,” Nichols said. “The governor is pro-life and he supports the Second Amendment, so he was happy to sign those bills.”

Steven DeLue, interim chair of Miami University’s political science department, said “right-of-center” policies, such as the effort to teach creationism, may be popular in ultra-conservative places like Warren County, but he warned they could turn off some independent voters who otherwise support the Tea Party because of its fiscal agenda.

“The problem for them and for the Republican Party is polls are showing the American people, in general, do not support these positions,” DeLue said. “Whatever allure the Tea Party had to some independents, they are going to lose now with the debt crisis and these other conservative positions.”

Whether creationism can be taught in public schools is a debate that never really goes away; the Texas state school board recently debated the issue while approving new textbooks.

John Silvius, a former biology professor at Cedarville University, a Christian institution that teaches both evolution and creationism, said the two theories can co-exist, even in a public school classroom.

“The joy of science, for me, is to raise questions that don’t necessarily have easy answers,” Silvius said. “If scientific inquiry is robust enough that it can reject false theories, why be so concerned?”

In Springboro, Kohls believes the Tea Party will play a growing role in coming elections, even at the school board level. “The majority of this county is looking for fiscal conservatives, and they will likely be social conservatives as well.”

Anderson said he is not necessarily trumpeting the teaching of creationism, but “if it came up, I would support it. I’m a Christian. I believe God created us. I’d like to see God back in school.”

Anderson and Kohls also have the backing of Jo Ellen Myers, who like Kohls, is a member of Educate Ohio, a statewide group of conservative board members focused on school finance issues. Myers sits on the South-Western City school board in Grove City, south of Columbus and believes creation should be taught along side evolution.

“If they’re teaching the one, why not?” she said. “I just haven’t brought it up.”

Myers said she believes in creationism, rather than evolution because evolution is “based on a theory that can’t even been proven.”

New state school board President Debe Terhar, a Tea Party supporter backed by Gov. Kasich, said she was unaware of Kohl’s request concerning creationism.

“I absolutely have no position at this point,” said Terhar, who lives in Green Twp. in Hamilton County. “I’m not going to go there.”

But Jeffrey Mims, a former Dayton Public Schools board member now on the state board, believes the issue will come up again at the state level given the political climate. Mims opposes the idea and believes debating it is a waste of time and money.

“Unfortunately, I think it will come to us at some point and time,” he said. “You have people who have to justify to their supporters that they carried their water. I see this as a major distraction from the significant challenges we have in Ohio.”
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 10:18 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

I have told ros before, a few times, that astrology has a scientific basis.


I'll agree with you that it has a mathematical basis, but I don't think it's necessarily scientific.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 11:47 am
@izzythepush,
You'll have to explain that izzy.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 12:12 pm
@spendius,
Calculation of a birth chart etc is mathematical. It then has to be interpreted. The interpretation is not scientific.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 12:13 pm
@izzythepush,
Anyway, what do you think of 'loudly sing cuckoo?'
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 12:28 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Two Springboro school board members are one vote short of having the support on the five-member board to push for “creationism” in classrooms there, which would likely ignite a wider debate on teaching religion in public schools and maybe set up a court fight.


Not "science classrooms" take note. Anti-IDers like to try tricking us by talking about science classrooms as a means of talking about classrooms.

That's because they haven't the guts for pushing for no religion in schools and there is only one alternative to no religion in schools and it is religion in schools which means in classrooms. So if they daren't push for no religion in schools they must approve of religion in schools. i.e. in classrooms.

And anybody who uses tricks like that once will use them again whenever it is convenient. Not that I mind. I expect it of them. What I do mind is them getting indignantly insulting just because somebody explains the tricks.

The atheist agenda demands religion being eradicated in schools. Not just in science classrooms or tennis lessons. Why do anti-IDers not promote that?

Interchanging "science classrooms" with "classrooms" for the purpose of pulling the wool over our eyes and ushering in atheism by the back door is sneaky and devious.

Actually it is just ushering in "ungodly lusts". Essentially, anti- IDers are 21st century gnostics.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 12:41 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Calculation of a birth chart etc is mathematical. It then has to be interpreted. The interpretation is not scientific.


It what way is an interpretation not scientific? Assertions do nothing to prove one is not scientific.

Simply because many popular interpretations are not scientific does not mean all interpretations are also not scientific. Plenty of interpretations of science are not scientific.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 12:53 pm
@spendius,
You go and get your birth chart done. After the mathematical bit is over and the two of you are looking at your birthchart, ask what the scientific method is that determines your character.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 04:00 pm
@izzythepush,
Theres no "scientific method" involved in astrology. The results are not repeatable and no predictions (accurate predictions) are possible. EVery astrological table is basically unique and is built more upon myth than anything scientific.

I wonder what the actual "hit" rate for astrological predictions are? I would imagine that they are not any more accurate than could be predicted with enough coin tosses.

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Aug, 2011 06:07 pm
You know, in my lifetime, i'll bet 1200 people have tried to guess my "sign." Ya know what? A hundred of them got it right!
 

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