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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 07:48 am
@spendius,
lessee, we go from Shaw, to Lamarck, then to Judge Jones by way of Aztecs, and then finish up by Having Galilei make a brief appearance in a role that he would laugh at and, of course, it could never be a shpendipost without a cameo appearnce by Veblen.(I hereby bestow the NY Phone Directory award for the paragraph with the largest cast of characters and the least amount of plot.

Do you ever realize how unintelligible your crap is? Its just a stringing together of disjointed topics that Im certain, even your "fans" are beginning to wonder whether its only the malt speaking.

You need to develop your thoughts more clearly like:



1.
Quote:
best guide to nerveless (nothing on Ignore) advanced eugenics
What does that even mean? Since you created the term "Advanced eugenics" what do YOU MEAN?? Youve been back pedalling since you posted it trying to cover your flubs with some format sounding shtickel that you think someone will understand and appreciate? (I believe that you are daft man, No really, Im serious)

2.
Quote:
Which I think is Lamarckian. But it doesn't matter what Shaw believed. What matters is the consequences of the belief just as what mattered to Aztec beliefs was the consequences of believing in a god which was insatiable for blood sacrifice.
. I think you hit this one out the park at gobledegook and landed it into the relm of "Schtuss"

3.
Quote:
Judge Jones never took evidence from anything like that. Ignore is one of the key components of the anti-IDer's lifestyle and thinking
. Like what? your previous paragraphs have no subjective reference, so it stands that the subsequent paragraph has no basis of reference. (Im sure you had an English teacher somewhere who told you to try to stop writing so scizophrenically)

4.
Quote:
The other is "being wonderful" which, it seems to me, is by far the largest occupational category in the US economy. It is here too but not yet quite so pronounced.
. Totally fell off the melon truck here. Why is wonderfulness objected to by you? I would love to see a world populated by wonderful people, but then Im also an optimist.
You seem to have a big concern about being on "Ignore" especially by me. I really have neither the time nor inclination to call attention to all your little rejiggering of the languiage and logic, so I will, from time to time take you off ignore to publically marvel at your "writing skills"

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 07:51 am
@spendius,
Quote:
fm and pom--can you explain why it goes dark at night? I can. Can you explain why the matter baffled scientists until Hubble explained it and Einstein had to ditch his cosmological constant which had been a mathematical trick to cover over a discrepancy


This is spendi trying to cover his poop with cat litter
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 08:12 am
@farmerman,
I meant by "nerveless (nothing on Ignore) advanced eugenics" nothing you would know about. You are nervous about eugenics.

I explained elementary and advanced eugenics. Obviously it was outside your ken despite my making it as simple as I could. EE takes place in dancehalls, pubs and other social rituals. AE takes place in offices with computers.

There is one sure thing about crap fm. It is not unintelligible. Except for those who between two stools.

The general idea of intellectual aspiration is to get rid of fans. You wouldn't know about that either. You suck up to people to increase the number of your fans but to the extent you succeed their average intelligence homes in on 100. And handing out treats in the way of confetti certificates to geology students so they can go to the desert regions and have an old illiterate Arab gent tell them where to drill is the oldest trick in the book. Ratings chasing it is known as in the trade. Or dumbing down to the LCD. I would rather "be wonderful" to those Stendhal called the "happy few" rather than to the lumpen mass of hoi polloi. I'm very particular about my fans. I try to go as fast as I think they can handle.

I'm glad you think I am daft. Seriously. If you thought I was intelligent I would put my head in a polarity reversal machine.

It isn't being wonderful that I object to. It is people faking it. With words and tailors and soft furnishings.

Like Dylan said--"I'll teach you how to pick and choose and how to throw the blade."

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 08:14 am
@farmerman,
No--I asked could you explain those things. I can. All you did was blurt.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 08:22 am
@spendius,
Quote:
@farmerman,

No--I asked could you explain those things. I can.
What do they have to do with anything herein? Admit it, you are just trying , in your precious spendi way, to divert my eyes from your complete previous doofusness.

I will now put you back on ignore , for, not to do so, will give the impression that Im talking with you and for the life of me, I have no ide or time to figure out which way your synapses are firing. Maybe you should take some of ANUS's oxy. At least his madness is focused on hating everyone.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 08:36 am
@farmerman,
I like everybody--that's my madness.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 09:11 am
UK UPDATE
Quote:
Free schools will not teach creationism, says Department for Education
(Riazat Butt, Guardian.co.uk, 21 March 2011)

The Department for Education has said Michael Gove is "crystal clear that teaching creationism is at odds with scientific fact" after a warning that the government's new free schools could be exploited by fundamentalist churches looking to promote a literal interpretation of the Bible.

The remarks follow a letter to the education secretary from the British Centre for Science Education (BCSE) suggesting that creationists planned to use government legislation on free schools to mount a "concerted attack" on science education.

Free schools can be set up by charities, universities, businesses, educational groups, teachers and groups of parents. They will have more freedom over the contents of their curriculum, leading to fears that science teaching in the schools may not be as rigorous. Teachers working at free schools will also not need to have formal teaching qualifications.

The BCSE, which describes itself as the leading anti-creationist organisation in Europe, wrote to Gove to express its "extreme concern" at applications from groups such as the Everyday Champions Church and the Christian Schools Trust to run free schools.

The trust has already had one proposal accepted. A primary school in Hampstead "with a distinctive Christian ethos that permeates every aspect of school life" will open in September. The BCSE says the trust has four applications outstanding.

The Everyday Champions Church, in Newark, Nottinghamshire, submitted its proposal for a 652-place school in January, shortly before the DfE held its first free school conference where Gove said he would consider applications from creationist groups on a case-by-case basis.

On its website the church says it has "660 children 'definitely' signed up to the school and 185 considering". It spent January and February carrying out public presentations and found parental response "overwhelmingly positive".

"Creationism will be embodied as a belief at Everyday Champions Academy, but will not be taught in the sciences," said its leader Gareth Morgan. "Similarly, evolution will be taught as a theory. We believe children should have a broad knowledge of all theories in order that they can make informed choice."

The DfE spokesman said groups setting up new free schools in the UK will be vetted to ensure that they have "strong education aims" and "high curriculum standards". He said: "The education secretary is crystal clear that teaching creationism is at odds with scientific fact. Ministers have said they will not accept any proposal where there are concerns about the people behind the project."

In the letter from the BCSE, Professor Paul Braterman wrote that the embodiment of creationism "as a belief" could only mean that science was "subordinate to religious considerations, and that the central concepts of the natural sciences, as developed over the past 350 years, must be rejected as doctrinally unsound."

In an accompanying report, the BCSE recommended the DfE "carefully vet" free school applications and "be very wary" of approving applications from creationist groups.

Last July, Gove acknowledged there were concerns about "inappropriate faith groups using this legislation to push their own agenda." The education secretary, who was addressing MPs on the cross-party Commons education committee, said his department was working on the regulations to ensure there were no "extremist groups taking over schools".

Braterman claimed that teaching in schools run by such groups in Sweden forced a revision of the original "friskolor" legislation there, making free schools subject to the same regulations that ensure teaching is objective as traditional schools.
rosborne979
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 09:30 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

UK UPDATE
Quote:
Free schools will not teach creationism, says Department for Education
(Riazat Butt, Guardian.co.uk, 21 March 2011)

Doesn't sound very "free" to me. If these are private schools how/why would they want to restrict their curriculum.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 10:34 am
@rosborne979,
It seems that both the UK and Canada regulate curriculum in private schools (maybe Australia also).

Their concern may be whether students will be prepared for university. Here in the United States, the Association of Christian Schools failed in their attempt to force state colleges in California to give credit for high school science classes taught with creationist textbooks.
rosborne979
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 11:36 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:
It seems that both the UK and Canada regulate curriculum in private schools (maybe Australia also).

That seems odd to me. If it's a private school, how does the state rationalize its interference? I guess I don't know much about the basic laws/rules that govern those countries.
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 11:40 am
@rosborne979,
One rationalization might be that education is mandatory up to a certain age. The state may have an interest in the curriculum of private schools that are teaching students who are still at an age where they are required by law to be in school.
rosborne979
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 11:44 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:
One rationalization might be that education is mandatory up to a certain age. The state may have an interest in the curriculum of private schools that are teaching students who are still at an age where they are required by law to be in school.

Yes, that sounds like a good rationalization Wink

I guess it all depends on how your laws are configured with regard to government involvement in private activities.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 01:52 pm
I believe it is correct to say that states don't require students to attend any particular school, or any school at all; but rather that they be educated to a certain minimal standard set by the state education department. The rationale, since public education became ubiquitous (late 19th century) has been to make citizens suficiently well educated to understand electoral issue and to inform themselves about them.

So, i would say that scientifically correct education is not a function of the general requirement that children be educated, but a function of the state's interest in setting standards. That, in my view, beggars all the tripe spread around by the religious, because if they can't show a scientifically reliable basis for what they believe, they can't impose it as a part of the standards. They are free to fill their children's heads with whatever nonsense they choose, the consequences will rebound on the children.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 01:59 pm
@wandeljw,
I don't believe that you are correct about that in Canada. It's just like it is in the United States, in that provinces set education standards. What may have confused you is the public support for Catholic schools in Ontario. When Canada East (Québec) and Canada West (Ontario) were formed in 1838, and joined in the British Imperial province of Canada, Canada West complained that there were no non-Catholic schools for children in Canada East. Canada East riposed that there were no Catholic schools in Canada West. So they cut a deal, whereby Canada East would provide publicly-supported secular schools, and Canada West would publicly support Catholic schools. The deal is unique among the provinces. Ontario kind of got screwed, although not intentionally. In modern time, there has been heavy immigration of Catholics to Ontario, largely from Italy, Portugal, Latin America and the former Portuguese colones, such as Goa in India. Toronto is the largest Italian city in the world outside Italy, and the largest Portuguese city in the world outside Portugal (if one doesn't count Brazil as any longer being Portuguese). In Ontario, you have Public District Schools and Catholic District Schools. The province does not support any other religious schools, and, as in the United States, private schools and home schooling merely need to meet a minimal education standard.
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 02:13 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
What may have confused you is the public support for Catholic schools in Ontario. When Canada East (Québec) and Canada West (Ontario) were formed in 1838, and joined in the British Imperial province of Canada, Canada West complained that there were no non-Catholic schools for children in Canada East. Canada East riposed that there were no Catholic schools in Canada West. So they cut a deal, whereby Canada East would provide publicly-supported secular schools, and Canada West would publicly support Catholic schools.


Exactly! This well-known historical incident has been on the forefront of my thinking for decades! Smile
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 02:28 pm
@wandeljw,
The sarcasm wasn't necessary, it was just a thought for why you might have believed that Canadian provinces regulated private schools--which they don't.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 03:02 pm
@Setanta,
My sarcasm was unnecessary, but it made me laugh. My sarcastic remarks are mostly for my own entertainment.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 03:14 pm
Can you guys not write anything a bit dangerous? Listening to you at close quarters must be not unlike reading roadsigns. Delivering epiphanies for your companions. Or at least trying to.

An epiphany happens when you are comfortably reading and suddenly the words make you feel like you should go for a long walk. Or stare out of the window for a while. And they are always transubstantiated into a joke. They have challenged your received wisdom and laughed at it on top. Yorick and all that. Alas!!!

Where Salman Rushdie went wrong was that, after living in England a while, he forgot that Islam doesn't do jokes of our sort.

I got a good one off Melville. If a bloke does his head in over a female the tale of what he does to try to forget her might make up the body of the book but that is just a joke to laugh at the madness of love for a woman. So the lengths the hero has to go to, and he might not succeed, is a measure of the author's sense of the sort of therapy needed and thus a compliment to the lady's numina. There are many moments in Moby Dick where I would guess she was clean forgotten.

Now hate is the same if it takes the extreme form of that sort of love madness. If you hate The Bible enough and you retain that hate whilst reading it it can give you nothing. If the beautiful poetry does not produce that effect which makes you stop your hate in its tracks, as your love madness is stunned when the harpoon is thrown, then you have no literature.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 04:19 pm
@wandeljw,
can you take this one wandel? Im late for a haircut.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2011 04:23 pm
@spendius,
Now you are starting to sound like this crowd that you and I like to explain the obvious to.....how do you know what cant happen ?
 

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