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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 05:07 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
the legislature is supposed to write the laws, not the judges.
But we all now courts challenge some laws and interpret all laws . Application of new laws is based on traditional rights as much as anything . Supreme courts are to reign in law makers and courts alike . They are not the slaves to the law one would imagine .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 05:15 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
that neither I nor anyone else should try to force our views on you and the rest of the world I would have done so.
I take it you have never raised children . How does your ideal fit into teaching ?

Quote:
If I and others organize and form a church and preach our views that are not built upon logical reasoning {empirical evidence} and tell you that they come from a invisible god that should not be questioned what is this going to do for the masses of people?
You mean like atheists who say they know how the inverse was created ?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 05:17 pm
@High Seas,
The Hindu religion has one God . It is the manifestations of that one God that are prayed to....the stories involving these manifestations are explanations for the world and its current situation .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 05:22 pm
@Francis,
Quote:
Your equating atheism with materialism is a straw man of the same order as equating non-christians with evil.
Your equating religion with fundamentalists is a straw man of the same order as equating Christians with good.

Quote:
Can you then explain why is there far less atheists in prison than atheists in the general population, percentage wise?
There isnt .
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 05:34 pm
@Ionus,
You are correct in my opinion when it comes to raising children but I do not see where I should keep you {adult} from doing the things that you like to do as long as it will not effect others in a harmful way!

Atheist that teach misinformation as if it is empirical facts is a religion or ideology of its own!
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 05:54 pm
I'm reading Ever Since Darwin, the first volume of the collected essays of the late Stephen Jay Gould. He was an elegant and thorough prose stylist. The book itself is meant as one of 8 "projects" I proposed to my English 101 class as the basis for research papers.

What strikes me is Gould's explanation how some now proved (at least partially) wrong old theories is man's inability to make predictions. A true diplomat, gentleman and scholar.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 05:58 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
I do not see where I should keep you {adult} from doing the things that you like to do as long as it will not effect others in a harmful way!
So I dont have to pay my taxes....I can litter in pristine wilderness....neither of these things will harm others if I do them .

Quote:
Atheist that teach misinformation as if it is empirical facts is a religion or ideology of its own!
Agreed. But they are too dogmatic and introverted to know that .
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 06:02 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
What was the court thinking...... {/quote]

I have offered a few hints on that matter on the thread concerned with it.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 06:05 pm
@Ionus,
your quote:
So I dont have to pay my taxes....I can litter in pristine wilderness....neither of these things will harm others if I do them

Are you certain that these things will not effect others in the long run?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 06:08 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Are you certain that these things will not effect others in the long run?
If I am the only one doing it, you would have a hard time proving I was harming others .
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 06:17 pm
@Ionus,
You seem to see what I was talking about I wonder if we taught our children the same concept if they would understand it?
I would think that some would not, but do you think that most would eventually understand the concept?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 06:20 pm
@reasoning logic,
When it comes to teaching children, they dont want to know all the variables . The human mind is capable of too much variety for that to work . What they want is a clear 'do it this way' . No point having adults around if they dont know what they are doing .
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 06:27 pm
@plainoldme,
No one would ever expect you, very plainoldme, to be seen reading anything that wasn't written by an elegant and thorough prose stylist, whatever that means, or by someone who had failed to achieve the status of a true diplomat, gentleman and scholar.

Are you using these phrases like rl uses neuroscience and research?

I would introduce them to the unexpurgated versions of Tom Jones and Tristram Shandy if I was teaching your class under the settled conditions of free speech and open expression. The thought that Mr Gould has the English to rival those two is out of the window.

Methinks you might be propagandising the little monsters by asserting that what you wish them to read is justified by your other assertions regarding the bozo and his literary capacities. It's a very well known trick and I'm surprised that some fool/s have given an educationalist the opportunity to put it over on their natural innocence.

The idea that Mr Gould stands above the range of exponents of English as an exemplar is too ridiculous to discuss.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 06:31 pm
@spendius,
You are probably correct spendius, "she may be using those phrases the same way as me and you use the ones we use!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 06:52 pm
@reasoning logic,
The video that I shared was in the wrong order this one should be the first one viewed!

A lively panel discussion between Steven Pinker, Sam Harris, Patricia Churchland, Lawrence Krauss, Simon Blackburn, Peter Singer. If human morality is an evolutionary adaptation and if neuroscientists can identify specific brain circuitry governing moral judgment, can scientists determine what is, in fact, right and wrong?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUxxZqynsBM&feature=related
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 04:44 am
@reasoning logic,
Now wait a minute there rl. I didn't say just using the phrases. The extreme laudatory expressions were being used for a reason to do with justifying the reading material the class was being exposed to. Mr Gould is an prominent evolutionary biologist and proponent of punctuated equilibrium and being used in an English class in preference to Jane Austen and Rider Haggard, say. And the two great writers I mentioned yesterday. And a host of others. Norman Mailer, Michael Holroyd and Richard Ellman for example. I doubt Mr Gould would appear in the top 5,000 of expert users of English.

Suppose the Nobel Committee awarded its prize to a person it agreed with on the understanding that the prestige of the prize would then be used to promote the line it wanted promoting. I have heard of Universities being accused of that devious trick.

I'm surprised you need to have this important distinction explained to you again.

If there is no opposition to science scientists will eventually become the only ones to determine what is right or wrong. That is what this thread is about. Those who want scientists to get into that position should join the anti-ID cause and those who don't should join the other side. People of our age should know what they are arguing for.

High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Mar, 2011 05:39 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

... I doubt Mr Gould would appear in the top 5,000 of expert users of English.

You evidently missed the ESL thread specifying the criteria for inclusion in such a list. This is a link: http://able2know.org/topic/168582-1
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 10:11 am
FLORIDA UPDATE
Quote:
Anti-Evolution Bill Hits State Senate
(By Brandon K. Thorp, Broward Palm Beach News, March 8, 2011)

In a perfect world, we'd have no reason to pause over the language of Florida's Senate Bill 1854, which reads, in part:
"Members of the instructional staff of the public schools... shall teach efficiently and faithfully... the following:
(a thorough presentation and critical analysis of the scientific theory of evolution."


"Critical analysis" ought to be a good thing. That's how the study of science is supposed to work. You examine a theory, search it for flaws, and if the theory holds up, you've both deepened your understanding and strengthened the theory's claim to veracity.

But Senate Bill 1854 was written by Sen. Stephen R. Wise, and he's a sneaky one. In 2009, in an interview with the Florida Times-Union, Sen. Wise identified himself as an ardent anti-evolutionist and said he intended to get "intelligent design" taught in schools. "If you're going to teach evolution," he said, "then you've got to teach the other side so you can have critical thinking."

This gives us a hint of what "critical analysis" might mean to Sen. Wise and what it might entail if Senate Bill 1854 should become law. There are controversies worth studying in the field of evolutionary biology -- most famously the conflicting theories of "punctuated equilibrium" and "phyletic gradualism." (The former holds that evolution happens in fits and spurts, generally following on the heels of some cataclysmic environmental change; the latter suggests that evolution occurs more or less evenly over long periods of time. Scientists have duked this one out for 40 years and now largely agree that evolution probably happens both gradually and suddenly, depending on environmental conditions.) But there is no scientific argument against evolution, as such. There is no "other side."

It is clear that Sen. Stephen Wise and his allies do not understand science or even its terminology. "Evolution" is not a theory. It is a fact, demonstrable in laboratories and in nature. (Even "speciation" -- the divergence of one species from another -- has been empirically observed among certain populations of sea gulls, salamanders, and warblers.) The only theory is "evolution by natural selection" -- which is to say, it is theorized that the fact of evolution is made possible by the action of natural selection. There is a tremendous, incontrovertible amount of evidence to suggest that this is the case.

"Evidence" is the thing in science. In order for there to be an "other side" in a debate about evolution by natural selection, there would have to be a theory other than natural selection with its own arsenal of evidence. There isn't one. "Intelligent design" is an idea, an opinion, but it has no evidence to support it -- just the conviction of those who believe. Which isn't science at all.

America is a nice place largely because ordinary citizens, such as Stephen Wise, are responsible for shaping the vast bulk of our public policy. Too often, however, we mistakenly believe that the citizenry's authority confers upon it an automatic wisdom and competence in specialized fields. Many individuals -- perhaps even most individuals -- believe in some kind of "intelligent design." Unfortunately for them, reality is not a democracy, and the physical facts of the universe do not rearrange themselves to conform to majority sentiments. If they did, the sun would spin about a flat Earth, and disease would be caused not by bacteria, viruses, or genetic error but by imbalanced humours and the unlucky alignment of stars.

Yet still the idea persists that one can examine an endlessly validated scientific theory and dismiss it on grounds of incredulity. This propensity was demonstrated in the Times-Union story, in which then-Rep. Alan Hays explained that his skepticism of evolution by natural selection was inspired, in part, by his training in dentistry. He asked: "How can anybody study the human body and deny that it was created by a higher power?"

Of course, the same was once said of the Grand Canyon, before geologists got their hands on it. Hays' point ignores the fact that those who have studied the human body most intently -- biologists -- are far more likely to believe in evolution by natural selection than those who have not.

Alan Hays is now in the state Senate -- a body that, like the human one, gives no indication of intelligent design. No doubt, he will have much to say about Senate Bill 1854. Stay tuned.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 10:58 am
@wandeljw,
The tautological strawmen, punctuated equilibrium and phyletic gradualism, once again appear on this thread in the service of ******* all your silly heads into dumbass mode.

The ONLY challenge to teaching evolution is the social consequences of doing so when its scientific severities have become established over many years and no other explanations can even be thought of.

Other challenges are a complete waste of time. They are off topic and constitute real trolling. And when the point has been explained dozens of times they constitute deliberate, aggravated, stubborn trolling.

And once Thorp uses the word "sneaky" there is no point in reading any further for any serious enlightenment on the matter.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 11:00 am
@spendius,
spendi, The only troll here is you! The topic of this thread should be self-explanatory; you are a dunce of unmeasurable ignorance.
0 Replies
 
 

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