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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 05:34 pm
@reasoning logic,
Evolution is a process that is inherent to this universe. It was responsible for life from chemicals and simply continued on. To narrow the definition is to say it magically was created when life was created. That is hardly helpful. Far better for it to be a process that was instrumental in life evolving from chemicals and simply continued on. Evolution should be seen as a name for a part of the increasing complexity of the universe.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 05:38 pm
@Ionus,
Sounds good to me now if we can get everyone else to see it that way! You are empirically correct about that! LOL

Not that I think you have a bad answer because I do like it!
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 05:43 pm
@Ionus,
You are just guilty of misusing the term. The origins of life are studied in the process of abiogenesis or genesis, Evolution is the process by which already living organisms are developing. If you care to misuse the word entirely, I shall not make any additional effort to correct you.
Whether you " incorrectly think" evolution is the process by hich life appeared from chemicals, is immaterial to me . Its the difference between organic CHEMISTRY and molecular BIOLOGY.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 05:47 pm
@farmerman,
I am not interested in your scientific/trade union demarcation line. Common sense dictates the process is a natural part of this universe and Darwin would have called it such if he didnt already have his hands full . The natural process started with the evolution of more complex chemicals.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:01 pm
@farmerman,
Is evolution a field of molecular BIOLOGY? Another question is why would they use the word organic in the term {organic CHEMISTRY} If we consider the origins of life to fall under that category ?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:18 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Whenever I discuss evolution Im talking about the rose of life from life already existing.


That doesn't rule out God. Only faith rules out God. And your faith is not acceptable to 90% of Americans.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 06:23 pm
@spendius,
If you had the faith that Spendius has you would be able to restore amputees limbs!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2011 08:25 pm
@spendius,
How can god rule out god when it's man who created god?

A nothing cannot rule out something that doesn't exist.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 04:57 am
@reasoning logic,
"Organic" chemistry is primarily the chemistry of carbon and its gazillions of compounds.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 05:06 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
Common sense dictates the process is a natural part of this universe and Darwin would have called it such if he didnt already have his hands full . The natural process started with the evolution of more complex chemicals.


Well, you can "believe" whatever you want there is no test. Just dont go parading around like "I am right and (expletive deleted) on you becuase you are drinking".
I do like the occasional insult but lets keep it on a higher plane shall we?. Try to Exceed your mum's expectations.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 05:11 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Try to Exceed your mum's expectations.
My mum thought I would be lucky to be a piano player in a whore house. Unfortunately, I never learnt piano.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 05:39 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
"Organic" chemistry is primarily the chemistry of carbon and its gazillions of compounds.


Many of which do not occur in nature or in the historical record of non-Christian cultures. Our use of them is thus not a part of evolution as it is defined in the limited sense anti-IDers do.

For example--

Quote:
A total of four enzymatic steps were combined, in a one-pot reaction, to synthesize carbohydrates starting from glycerol. First, phosphorylation of glycerol by reaction with pyrophosphate in the presence of phytase at pH 4.0 in 95% glycerol afforded racemic glycerol-3-phosphate in 100% yield. The l-enantiomer of the latter underwent selective aerobic oxidation to dihydroxyacetone phosphate (DHAP) at pH 7.5 in the presence of glycerolphosphate oxidase (GPO) and catalase. Subsequently, fructose-1,6-bisphosphate aldolase catalyzed the aldol reaction of DHAP with butanal. Finally, dephosphorylation of the aldol adduct was mediated by phytase at pH 4 affording 5-deoxy-5-ethyl-d-xylulose in 57% yield from l-glycerol-3-phosphate. The phytase on/off-switch by pH was the key to controlling phosphorylation and dephosphorylation.


Which makes scrabbling around in sedimentary rocks with glittering names to find old fossilised bones from which to teleologise hasty and self-aggrandising conclusions look like nursery science.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 10:15 am
OKLAHOMA UPDATE
Quote:
Rep. Kern Proposing New Bill On Controversial Science Topics
(Ed Murray, Oklahoma City News 9, February 15, 2011)

Representative Sally Kern is proposing a bill she says will allow more discussion about evolution, global warming, and human cloning. But critics say the controversial legislator is trying to add religion to the classroom.

The Legislature has considered similar bills over the last few years but none have made it into law. Kern believes her bill is different. It specifically states no religious viewpoint or doctrine is protected or allowed.

"It stays 100 miles away from creationism and ID. It's not in any way trying to get those in there," said Rep. Sally Kern, (R) Oklahoma City.

Representative Sally Kern said her bill doesn't change any current science curriculum or textbook and doesn't alter Oklahoma's past standards for science education. The bill simply protects teachers who feel they don't have the freedom to fully explore controversial science topics.

"Some people say there's no problem. Yes, there is. I have some surveys that show that many teachers fear for their jobs. That they will be reprimanded or lose their jobs if they teach just pure science. If they teach all of science instead of just the Darwin model," said Rep. Kern.

Oklahomans for Excellence in Science Education has opposed bills like one this since 1999 stating in the past that "promoting the notion that there is some scientific controversy is just plain dishonest. Evolution as a process is supported by an enormous and continually growing body of evidence. Despite 150 years of direct research, no evidence in conflict with evolution has ever been found."

"This bill is not anti-evolution. This bill is ‘Let's teach all of evolution.' Let's teach our children how to have inquiring minds. Let's teach them how to be critical thinkers, to look at both sides of an issue, scientific issue, and be able to examine what is the plausible thing there," said Kern.

Scientist and past president of OESE Dr. Victor Hutchison said Kern's bill, among other things, would hurt Oklahoma's economy. He pointed out Louisiana has the same exact law and almost immediately started losing science convention business.

Kern withdrew her bill from Tuesday's education committee agenda. It will now be debated at next Tuesday's meeting where Kern expects a close vote to advance it to the full House.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 10:40 am
@wandeljw,
If the legislature feels that evolution is "Scientifically controversial" I think the burden of proof that it is, is on them.

I dont have any problem with a teacher presenting problems qwith evolutionary theory so long as the facts are correct. For example, there are entire phyla that we have no idea where they came from, does this negate evolution or is it merely a matter of finding "The proper fossil missing link"?. My problem is when a teacher attempts to insert an "Alternative hypothesis" that is based on Biblical myth or space aliens orspaghetti monsters and poses them as valid scientific theory. Thats in violation of good teaching and the Constitution.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 12:03 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
"promoting the notion that there is some scientific controversy is just plain dishonest. Evolution as a process is supported by an enormous and continually growing body of evidence. Despite 150 years of direct research, no evidence in conflict with evolution has ever been found."


The last two sentences in no way prove that there is not a scientific controversy over evolution and the teaching of it. And I'm amazed that anybody would try to pretend that they do.

Our society's existence is proof that there is evidence in conflict with evolution. Under evolutionary conditions we would not exist.

What's with you guys. Can't you understand this simple point. Maybe you daren't because half a lifetime of bullshit would have to be erased.

Mr Murray's quote is highly disingenuous. If he doesn't know he's stupid and if he does it's deliberate lies.

Quote:
continually growing body of evidence.


As I have already explained, that is no different than dropping a brick for 150 years and then writing articles that there's a continually growing body of evidence that bricks fall to the ground when dropped. If that is an example of the style of Oklahomans for Excellence in Science Education you need look no further for the reason why American science is not as good as you lot say it should be.

He is the dishonest person.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 12:14 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
If the legislature feels that evolution is "Scientifically controversial" I think the burden of proof that it is, is on them.


Get them to call me as a witness fm. It'll take me five minutes.

And it is ridiculous to keep on trying to equate the Bible with aliens and spaghetti monsters. One finds it hard to laugh because it is so embarrassing. I would cringe at a grown man thinking his audience was so stupid as to do anything else. It's the same trick Murray used in wande's quote. The assumption that everybody is stupid. Are all you scientificists the same? Like Robespierre, you believe everything you say is true.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 05:34 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
And it is ridiculous to keep on trying to equate the Bible with aliens and spaghetti monsters.
Actually Spendi, I see a clear link between atheists and those who believe in aliens and spaghetti monsters. They need to fill their lives with something.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 05:56 pm
@Ionus,
Did you leave out christian and agnostics?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 06:17 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Did you leave out christian and agnostics?
No. Agnostics tend to be scientific in their approach. Christians (do you mean all religious people ?) have sufficient doctrine to counter any whacko beliefs. Atheists provide the people for sex with aliens, Jesus was an astronaut, Nostradamus, and many other weird beliefs. They need to believe in something, and when they stumble into something that sounds right, they accept it.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2011 07:18 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus are you a christian?
 

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