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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 8 Jan, 2011 07:43 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Did he have an English accent? and was he kind of inebriated?


Hey fm--that's really witty you know. Have you thought of offering your services as a scriptwriter to Hollywood? If you can think up jokes as good as that on the spur of the moment just think what you could do if you put your mind to it in an organised and disciplined manner as you did with the construction of the currach. You could be famous and then we could all say we knew you in the days when this amazing talent of yours first showed itself.

I imagine the dude had heard of Darwin and was just offering pom a chance to explain who Darwin was and give him a sense of how important he was as a jemmy to prise open the prison doors of the Christian indoctrination of ridiculous and unscientific inhibitions on matters sexual. By deft questions he could have had pom eating out of his hand as they sat and watched his washing going round and round and pom's down fluffed jacket drying. And who knows where something like that might blossom. After all--I ask you--a good looking lady reading about Darwin would get any red-blooded Englishman's moustache twitching. Twirling even when down fluffing got mentioned.

You already have one enthusiastic fan I see. If there are a lot of people like Setanta, as I expect there are, you have an untapped market just waiting to be exploited.

BTW--You never answered my question about whether you would help promote Ark Encounters if some of your adjacent land was needed for expansion due to the success of the venture. I'll allow you might have overlooked it on the "sniffing at the paper knife" principle but I thought it worth reminding you of it if only that you may entertain us with more good jokes on the matter of principles not being worth a discarded corset strap when cash is in the frame. Sheep being such hard work and messy with it as they are. When kept in confined spaces I mean. On the hills of the Yorkshire dales the sheep are left to their own devices and are not in the least messy. They are only hard work when it snows a lot. And in the process that causes them to appear in the displays in supermarkets looking so outre.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sat 8 Jan, 2011 08:52 am
Nice short video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GEh1u5fF4M&NR=1&feature=fvwp
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jan, 2011 10:41 am
@spendius,
spendi, You're a lot more creative in the writing field than farmerman, and you should consider a career in script-writing. farmerman is more technical in his writings in his career field which is geology. You, on the other hand, can arrive at all kinds of different conclusions on different issues that nobody else could dream up.

That's film script-writing if I ever saw one!
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 8 Jan, 2011 11:17 am
@cicerone imposter,
Thanks ci, I think. I havent peeked at any of his (or Ionus) posts for about 2 weeks now, (Its my New Years Resolution, Im not feeding trolls in 2011).

spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 8 Jan, 2011 12:03 pm
@farmerman,
fm means he daren't look. He will feed a troll anytime one of them presents him with an opportunity to strut his geological knowledge.

I didn't bring Ark Encounters into the thread. But once it is brought in it is on topic to discuss it and that's not trolling.

He's running off with his tail between his legs to join the others hiding behind the fence. I can well see why he wouldn't want to give an answer to the question of Ark Encounters being in desperate need of his land.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jan, 2011 11:18 pm
@farmerman,
No, he didn't have an English accent but he was weaving around, obviously in his cups. He left and then came back to tell me a story about how his clothes were once stolen when he went next door for a six pack.

"I don't drink anymore . . ." he said.

I put in an ellipsis because I'm certain he forgot the word tonight or, perhaps, an entire phrase that included because I just ran out of money.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Jan, 2011 11:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I meet many people who doesn't know who Ernest Shackleton is.


They just might lack the endurance to find out.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 09:20 am
OKLAHOMA UPDATE
Quote:
Letter to the Editor, Durant Daily Democrat, January 7, 2011

This letter is in response to Senator Brecheen’s discussions in the Durant Daily Democrat the last few weeks on evolutionary theory and his intention to introduce creationist legislation that would require creation to be taught along with evolution in Oklahoma science classrooms. Because of the misinformation he provides to his constituents, presenting both ideologies and letting the students “decide” for themselves may seem like a good idea; however, in reality it opens our schools, teachers, and state to unnecessary litigation and scientific ridicule from the rest of the world.

To begin, science and religion are on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of how information is obtained and studied; this is where Mr. Brecheen somehow missed the boat in his scientific studies.

Science is a method of problem solving. Science is evidence driven through experimentation.

Data in the form of measurements are collected in an experiment. After much evidence has been collected, a unifying explanation attempts to explain all the observations, thus a scientific theory is established. Evolution is a foundational theory in science that is backed with over 200 years of evidence and experimentation from thousands of scientists and is accepted worldwide as the driving force behind speciation and variation in organisms. Creation, on the other hand, is based in religion. Religion adheres to the teachings of “faith” and to supernatural forces where its evidence cannot be measured with any instrument. Without experimentally obtained observations, creation cannot and should not be presented in a science classroom. There are other avenues where students learn religion: church, theology classes, literature, humanities, etc.

Secondly, if schools are required to teach creation in our sciences, whose version of creation do we teach?

I, like many others who share my opinion, have no desire to question or to disparage any individual’s faith. I’m sure Mr. Brecheen will have even more qualms with our science classrooms if the version being taught isn’t Christian based. I believe this leaves schools, teachers, and the State of Oklahoma open to lawsuits that can’t be won due to First Amendment violation. This has been demonstrated by Kansas few years ago. So, Mr. Brecheen, why are you willing to submit legislation that will probably be repealed and will cost taxpayers millions of dollars?

Finally, I have a hard time understanding, out of all the governmental woes facing Oklahoma’s economy, budget, and unemployment, why is this at the top of your priority list? Because of your status as a freshman senator, I would think your time would be better spent finding solutions to stimulating Oklahoma’s economy than addressing this issue. I realize this issue is personally important to you and some of your conservative constituents, but when you took office you swore to represent all.

This legislation, Mr. Brecheen, does not represent me or the many voters with whom I have spoken.

I ask you to refocus your efforts to represent all Oklahomans on issues that aren’t already constitutionally moot.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 11:11 am
@wandeljw,
Are most of these politicians that ignorant of science and case law?
Sen Breechen wants to embroil his state in another silly Dover case or worse, another Aguillard
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 01:20 pm
The most disgusting aspect of it is that's it's only political grandstanding. The dullest witted among political advisors can tell this clown that the effort is doomed, and that the expense and embarrassment to the state of Oklahoma will be enormous. The only plausible basis for such a stance is to endear the joker to extreme right-wing christians--it certainly does nothing for Oklahoma.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 01:22 pm
@Setanta,
When they have to spread the word of god, anything goes. Cost is not an issue.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 02:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
That's right ci. You lot can call it ignorant or disgusting or missing the boat but he's doing it. And you seem unable to stop him. In fact you encourage him by giving him what Mrs Thatcher called "the oxygen of publicity".

It must be one of the easiest ways to become a minor celebrity known to sofa loungers.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 02:41 pm
@spendius,
He doesn't need any encouragement other than the bible (fiction) that he believes in.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 10:10 am
UPDATE ON OHIO SCIENCE TEACHER HEARING
Quote:
Teacher's firing over religion fair, referee says
(By Holly Zachariah, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH, January 9, 2011)

A Mount Vernon teacher defied his bosses and ignored the U.S. Constitution when he continually used his eighth-grade science classes to push his own religion, and he should be fired for it, a state hearing officer has concluded.

The Mount Vernon school board put John Freshwater on unpaid leave and voted in 2008 to fire him, saying he taught creationism and intelligent design, failed to remove religious materials from the classroom and burned crosses on students' arms during science experiments.

Freshwater, saying he'd done nothing wrong, fought to keep his job.

Before Ohio teachers can be fired, they are entitled to a hearing before a referee, who then makes a recommendation to the school board. Freshwater's hearing went on sporadically for nearly two years at a cost to taxpayers of at least $700,000.

R. Lee Shepherd, the hearing officer or "referee" assigned to the case by the Ohio Department of Education, issued the report recommending Freshwater's firing late Friday.

It is nonbinding, and the board of education - which includes two different members from when it voted to fire Freshwater - does not have to accept it.

Freshwater could not be reached yesterday, and his attorney, R. Kelly Hamilton, did not return a call seeking comment.

Freshwater's pastor, friend and adviser, Don Matolyak of the Trinity Assembly of God church in Mount Vernon, said Freshwater wouldn't make a comment because the school board hasn't yet acted on the report.

Mount Vernon Superintendant Steve Short said the district wouldn't have a comment until at least Monday.

In the report, Shepherd wrote that Freshwater was a popular middle-school teacher and that most of his students enjoyed his class. His students scored above average on state tests, and he often was recognized for his teaching skills, Shepherd said.

"Unfortunately, John Freshwater was not satisfied with the positive results of his teaching in terms of successful state test scores and the development of a love for the subject of science in the minds of his students," Shepherd wrote.

Instead, "he was determined to inject his personal religious beliefs into his plan."

During the protracted state hearings, Freshwater and his attorney argued that he had been targeted because he refused to remove his personal Bible from his desk.

In 2003, Freshwater asked the district to allow discussions of creationism, as well as evolution, in class. The board refused. The report said that Freshwater "overtly and covertly" began to teach creationism himself.

"He used his classroom as a means of sowing the seeds of doubt and confusion in the minds of impressionable students as they searched for meaning in the subject of science," Shepherd wrote.

District officials gave Freshwater plenty of warnings and opportunities to change his methods, Shepherd said.

He concluded that because Freshwater repeatedly violated the Constitution and district rules and ignored the orders of administrators, he should be fired.

Shepherd said the controversial claims that Freshwater used an electrical laboratory device to burn crosses on students' arms during science experiments were overblown. "Once sworn testimony was presented, it became obvious that speculation and imagination had pushed reality aside," he wrote.

Shepherd said the matter was dealt with administratively and the allegations were not a part of his recommendation to fire.

Yet in December, a judge approved a $450,000 settlement between Freshwater and the family of one of his former students who said he was one of those burned in class.

The money, which will be paid by the district's insurer, was to compensate Stephen and Jenifer Dennis and their son, Zachary, for mental and physical pain and suffering.


A pdf copy of the referee's report can be found here:
http://www.dispatch.com/wwwexportcontent/sites/dispatch/local_news/stories/2011/01/08/freshwater-report.pdf
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 10:17 am
@wandeljw,
well well, so the schoolboard need not follow the reccomendations from the hearing. I wonder what would happen should they NOT?
Itd be kind of stupid to take a totally different tack and allow Freshwater to rejoin the science staff.
Waht Freshwater should do is join up with the Discovery Institute and just rake in the fees from giving talks in church social halls, or try to publish more ID gobbledegook with Dr Dembski and his fractured logic series.

0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 10:16 am
Quote:
Mount Vernon board terminates Freshwater’s contract
(By Pamela Schehl, Mount Vernon News, January 11, 2011)

MOUNT VERNON — After nearly two hours discussing Ohio School Board Association referee R. Lee Shepherd’s report recommending the termination of John Freshwater’s teaching contract, the Mount Vernon City Schools Board of Education voted 4-1 to terminate the former middle school science teacher.

Board member Steve Thompson voted against the measure while Margie Bennett, Jody Goetzman, Paula Barone and Sharon Fair voted to accept Shepherd’s recommendation and terminate Freshwater’s employment for “good and just cause.” That termination was effective Monday at 11:59 p.m.

“The decision has been made to accept the referee’s recommendation to terminate the employment of Mr. Freshwater,” said board president Bennett. “It was not an easy decision. We don’t believe there are any winners or losers in this situation. It is a very difficult situation for everyone. We are glad it has been resolved. Hopefully we can put this behind us, the community can begin to come together again and relationships can heal and we can move forward.”

Fair said the board used the executive session to explore all avenues, raise questions and consider all the information.

“It’s unfortunate that we had to reach this point,” she added. “We have to follow the law; we have to follow procedures; we have to address things. I hope that everyone has learned from this experience. And I hope it hasn’t damaged our community too much. I think that people do understand this is a public school and we need to look at what that means.”

Before the board went into executive session, Thompson questioned Barone’s decision, announced in November, to reverse her previous decision to recuse herself from deliberations about Freshwater. Barone said her participation would involve no legal conflict of interest and stated it was her right and responsibility as an elected official to take part in the discussion and decision-making process.

“With the resolution of the federal lawsuits,” she said, “things have changed. My recusal was cautionary [with regard to litigation.] The settlement of all litigation involving Mr. Freshwater, the Does and the Mount Vernon City Schools eliminated the basis for my recusal.”

Freshwater, by law, may file an appeal with the Knox County Court of Common Pleas.

Calls to Freshwater’s residence for comment were not returned as of press time.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 02:46 pm
@wandeljw,
Enough of these non-entities scurrying about in some nondescript backwater of American provinciality. What are you trying to prove wande? Will you explain that because it escapes me what it might be in relation to your thread topic.

Oscar Wilde said--" Self-denial is the shining sore on the leprous body of Christianity."

Catch that pass and run into the endzone with it. You're fretting about the doilies.
wandeljw
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 02:53 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Enough of these non-entities scurrying about in some nondescript backwater of American provinciality. What are you trying to prove wande? Will you explain that because it escapes me what it might be in relation to your thread topic.

Oscar Wilde said--" Self-denial is the shining sore on the leprous body of Christianity."

Catch that pass and run into the endzone with it. You're fretting about the doilies.


The last news item that I posted shows that public school board members sometimes take action when a teacher injects creationism into lessons on evolution.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 03:11 pm
@wandeljw,
What? One in a town of barely 30,000 folks where the reporting has proved a bit iffy. You can hardly be serious. It proves nothing.

Go with the Wilde quote and get some courage into your convictions. The USA is big enough for you to find these examples all the time.

What evidence have you that Mr Freshwater is not going halves with the Stephen and Jenifer Dennis with the insurer's pay out? Any scientist would at the least consider the possibility. It was the first thing that entered my head. It's the fact that you take everything you read in these provincial papers as being true which leads me to be sceptical about your attitude to science.

It's just self flattery wande.

What do you think of those scientific studies of about 30 years ago which showed that young single women living together in places like nurse's quarters attached to hospitals and military barracks had their menstrual cycles come into congruence.

How does evolution theory account for that?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 04:38 pm
@wandeljw,
Apparently hes still alive eh? However, He is a bit more incoherent if your quote is true and accurate.
 

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