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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 08:56 am
@Setanta,
Pigeons and doves folks,
pigeons and doves
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 08:59 am
@High Seas,
Quote:
I'm puzzled by the "corruption" allegation in that specific field
Guilty of the error I accuse Fm of.....I should have added more detail. It wasnt about any field discussed here but a related field. I was in Chitwan national Park and a USA professor of biology showed up with two beautiful assistants. I spoke to one of them and they said they were ******* him for credits so of course he chose them to accompany him on his fully funded tour.

I also know of a student who suicided because a professor who kept telling him to quit and that he was usless, etc. Upon hearing of the students death, he laughed and so did all the other staff around him. It even has a name...where you try to push your students out...it is called playing snap...this one just ended in death, no big deal.

I know of others. My experience here in Oz is that you can not get a more arrogant lazy and useless person than a Uni lecturer...and I was one !
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 09:08 am
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

I understand DNA explains why we're descended from monkeys and not they from us. Makes Darwin's insight even more impressive.


An article for National Geographic by David Quammen gave an excellent summary of the evidence used by Charles Darwin:
Quote:
The evidence, as he presented it, mostly fell within four categories: biogeography, paleontology, embryology, and morphology. Biogeography is the study of the geographical distribution of living creatures"that is, which species inhabit which parts of the planet and why. Paleontology investigates extinct life-forms, as revealed in the fossil record. Embryology examines the revealing stages of development (echoing earlier stages of evolutionary history) that embryos pass through before birth or hatching; at a stretch, embryology also concerns the immature forms of animals that metamorphose, such as the larvae of insects. Morphology is the science of anatomical shape and design. Darwin devoted sizable sections of The Origin of Species to these categories.

Biogeography, for instance, offered a great pageant of peculiar facts and patterns. Anyone who considers the biogeographical data, Darwin wrote, must be struck by the mysterious clustering pattern among what he called "closely allied" species"that is, similar creatures sharing roughly the same body plan. Such closely allied species tend to be found on the same continent (several species of zebras in Africa) or within the same group of oceanic islands (dozens of species of honeycreepers in Hawaii, 13 species of Galápagos finch), despite their species-by-species preferences for different habitats, food sources, or conditions of climate. Adjacent areas of South America, Darwin noted, are occupied by two similar species of large, flightless birds (the rheas, Rhea americana and Pterocnemia pennata), not by ostriches as in Africa or emus as in Australia. South America also has agoutis and viscachas (small rodents) in terrestrial habitats, plus coypus and capybaras in the wetlands, not"as Darwin wrote"hares and rabbits in terrestrial habitats or beavers and muskrats in the wetlands. During his own youthful visit to the Galápagos, aboard the survey ship Beagle, Darwin himself had discovered three very similar forms of mockingbird, each on a different island.

Why should "closely allied" species inhabit neighboring patches of habitat? And why should similar habitat on different continents be occupied by species that aren't so closely allied? "We see in these facts some deep organic bond, prevailing throughout space and time," Darwin wrote. "This bond, on my theory, is simply inheritance." Similar species occur nearby in space because they have descended from common ancestors.

Paleontology reveals a similar clustering pattern in the dimension of time. The vertical column of geologic strata, laid down by sedimentary processes over the eons, lightly peppered with fossils, represents a tangible record showing which species lived when. Less ancient layers of rock lie atop more ancient ones (except where geologic forces have tipped or shuffled them), and likewise with the animal and plant fossils that the strata contain. What Darwin noticed about this record is that closely allied species tend to be found adjacent to one another in successive strata. One species endures for millions of years and then makes its last appearance in, say, the middle Eocene epoch; just above, a similar but not identical species replaces it. In North America, for example, a vaguely horselike creature known as Hyracotherium was succeeded by Orohippus, then Epihippus, then Mesohippus, which in turn were succeeded by a variety of horsey American critters. Some of them even galloped across the Bering land bridge into Asia, then onward to Europe and Africa. By five million years ago they had nearly all disappeared, leaving behind Dinohippus, which was succeeded by Equus, the modern genus of horse. Not all these fossil links had been unearthed in Darwin's day, but he captured the essence of the matter anyway. Again, were such sequences just coincidental? No, Darwin argued. Closely allied species succeed one another in time, as well as living nearby in space, because they're related through evolutionary descent.

Embryology too involved patterns that couldn't be explained by coincidence. Why does the embryo of a mammal pass through stages resembling stages of the embryo of a reptile? Why is one of the larval forms of a barnacle, before metamorphosis, so similar to the larval form of a shrimp? Why do the larvae of moths, flies, and beetles resemble one another more than any of them resemble their respective adults? Because, Darwin wrote, "the embryo is the animal in its less modified state" and that state "reveals the structure of its progenitor."

Morphology, his fourth category of evidence, was the "very soul" of natural history, according to Darwin. Even today it's on display in the layout and organization of any zoo. Here are the monkeys, there are the big cats, and in that building are the alligators and crocodiles. Birds in the aviary, fish in the aquarium. Living creatures can be easily sorted into a hierarchy of categories"not just species but genera, families, orders, whole kingdoms"based on which anatomical characters they share and which they don't.

All vertebrate animals have backbones. Among vertebrates, birds have feathers, whereas reptiles have scales. Mammals have fur and mammary glands, not feathers or scales. Among mammals, some have pouches in which they nurse their tiny young. Among these species, the marsupials, some have huge rear legs and strong tails by which they go hopping across miles of arid outback; we call them kangaroos. Bring in modern microscopic and molecular evidence, and you can trace the similarities still further back. All plants and fungi, as well as animals, have nuclei within their cells. All living organisms contain DNA and RNA (except some viruses with RNA only), two related forms of information-coding molecules.

Such a pattern of tiered resemblances"groups of similar species nested within broader groupings, and all descending from a single source"isn't naturally present among other collections of items. You won't find anything equivalent if you try to categorize rocks, or musical instruments, or jewelry. Why not? Because rock types and styles of jewelry don't reflect unbroken descent from common ancestors. Biological diversity does. The number of shared characteristics between any one species and another indicates how recently those two species have diverged from a shared lineage.

-David Quammen, National Geographic Magazine, November 2004
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 09:09 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
The real "intermediates" of a phyla
You are correct, I should have omitted the "A" .

..."The real intermediates of Phyla"... should have been what I said, since I was talking re: the two end members of the species

However, you missed the very big mistake in that I used PHYLA to mean SPECIES. No? we sometimes use superior titles when we should be sticking to thwe principle phyletic level.

Quote:
The Polar bear IS a brown bear. It has survived several Polar ice melts by breeding with the brown bear. A hybrid has been found. It seems to be happening again as pressure is put on their hunting territory.


Youve made my point. A polar bear IS a polar bear Ursus maritimus, ( and Hecht 1984) Ursus Maritimus tyrranus. The brown bear IS and WAS a brown bear Ursus arctos. Fossil evidence shows that the polar bear DERIVED from brown bears over 200000 years ior so. U.m tyrranus came first (with brown bear like dentition) until finally U maritimus evolved . The discovery of a freely breeding intermediate form similar to tyrannus is an example of how the Polar bear may escape extinction by adjusting its niche and taking up with the brownies again.

Thank you , youve gotten this one .







farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 09:17 am
@wandeljw,
Biogeography gives us lots of headaches as well. Quammen fails to discuss how the Ratite birds, Like Ostriches and Emus and Kiwis, all seem to follow as similar biogeographic pattern from a form that could have riddedn the splitting of South AMerica from Africa as PAngea busted up. It seems that, recent genetic data from the ratites gives a really confusing picture of how all these similarly appearing, but differently dwerived birds could have all engaged in convergent evolution. (There is an answer and its genetics on top of biogeography-I hope someone does a TV special sometime)

In historical geology 104, I require the kids read Quammens book about islands and evolution.

THE SONG OF THE DODO.

THE RELUCTANT MR DARWIN

0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 09:19 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
you missed the very big mistake in that I used PHYLA to mean SPECIES
No. I thought that phyla (including sub-phyla) was what you meant because of the need to track major change. Like the adaptation to legs, or wings, or feathers...major stuff like that......
Quote:
the two end members of the species
But how do you identify the end members where the growth looks more like a bush ? Esp with species..this is another reason I thought you were right to say phyla.
I would like to take this opportunity to publicly apogise for any discomfit I may have caused. If you can stop calling me names, I can reciprocate.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 09:26 am
@Ionus,
OK lets give it a try.

The end members we were talking about were those of polar bear and brown bear with the maritimus tyrranus in the middle. Phyla would have been correct if I were maybe talking genera or higher but species should, in all accuracy, remain species.

Nobody never fucks up. I once mapped the wrong side of a mountain because my Brunton was still set at PA declination and I was 11 degrees off.
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 09:31 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
I once mapped the wrong side of a mountain because my Brunton was still set at PA declination and I was 11 degrees off.
I can beat that. I once had a compass go on me and I was so distracted I didnt notice north was 180 degrees out when I did my next leg. The real pilot spent a lot of time staring at me till I realised. I have never taken my eyes of the standby compass since...I was thinking of mounting one on top of my computer to make me feel more relaxed.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 09:49 am
@wandeljw,
That was a fascinating article, thanks! http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0411/feature1/
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0411/feature1/images/ft_hdr.1.jpg
Quote:
"The evidence is there," he added. "It's buried in the rocks of ages."
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:26 am
LOUISIANA UPDATE
Quote:
Our views: Keep politics out of texts
(Baton Rouge Advocate, Editorial Opinion, November 12, 2010)

When the state boards of education in Texas and Kansas bent to political pressure and began to censor or amend textbooks through distortions of science and history, those states were embarrassed in the nation.

We hope that experience is much on the minds of the committee that today will hear complaints about textbooks for high school biology in Louisiana.

The process of approving textbooks for use in schools is a public one, as it should be. The public has a right to be heard, and we applaud those willing to participate in the political process at any level.

But it is the duty of the committee members not to be politicians — a couple of the members are state legislators — or representatives of public opinion. The committee members have a duty to reject intrusion of pseudo-science, such as creationism or its offshoot “intelligent design,” into science classrooms.

This debate is an old one in Louisiana. Proponents of creationism and its ilk wrap or unwrap religion from their cause when it suits them politically. But just about every mainstream faith is accepting of the theory of evolution that is the basic building block for all scientific understanding of life on Earth.

It’s one thing to be different culturally, as Louisiana is in so many ways. But the facts of science and biology do not change. For Louisiana to be different in the direction of ignorance would be a humiliation in the eyes of the nation and the world.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:29 am
@High Seas,
I highly doubt that is a picture of Darwin.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:32 am
The challenge to teaching evolution, the topic here if I may be permitted to remind you all as you perform your ego skatings, absent the triple loop of course, do not concern the subjects you are now engaged in. Were the scientific findings of the evolutionist to be thought of in isolation, as they were at Dover, there is no challenge. The subject seen in that simple light is morally neutral.

The challenge is exclusively related to the undermining of Christianity, the promotion of atheism, and its adherents, and the green light for sexual depravity including the joys of the resulting burgeoning easy sensationalism and the litigations, juicy cases and unrestricted promiscuity and not forgetting the suppliers of equipment and services of a mechanical, pharmaceutical or surgical nature. The coalition in favour of teaching the severe doctrines of evolution in schools is made up of the beneficiaries. And it is a mighty coalition and a very great deal of money is involved.

The fact that evolution teaching in schools is being challenged on limited and carefully selected scientific grounds is neither here nor there and derives from the obvious fact that most of the participants in such a scam would be embarrassed to mount the proper and only worthwhile challenge. The absence of the proper challenge in court cases and discussions is merely to save the blushes of those engaged in such futile nonsense because the majority of the participants will have an emotional interest in one or more aspects of the Christian definition of sexual depravity and will be on an unspoken agreement not to raise any such issues.

Such a challenge cannot but be defeated. It is a sitting duck. I can't see why any serious intellectual would even take notice of it. It's playpen stuff. It's for neurotics who stick their head in the Ignore bag at the first hint of the real challenge.

As fm said recently--it's kid's games.





cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:43 am
@spendius,
spendi, Christianity undermines itself on many fronts. Their primary lesson about morals is the worst one; the history about christianity during the past two thousand years is a clear message that "it doesn't work." When priests destroy children's lives with their molestation and rape, even the leaders of the church cannot be trusted. The hierarchy have hidden these "sins" by moving the offending priests to other locations where they repeat their sins. The Inquisition is another case in point.

There isn't much in support of any religion when one learns of all the atrocities committed by nations against other nations whether they call themselves christian, muslim, buddhist, hindu, or anything else.

We now have battles based on religion - not only in Iraq where the sunni and kurds cannot get along (for over one thousand years), but the so-called religious folks in our country wants to enforce the teaching of creationism along with science. To what ends? The religious also discriminate against gays and lesbians based on their religious teachings - even while they contradict themselves from the Constitution they claim to honor.

Where is the logic? Where is the humanity?



Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The Inquisition is another case in point.
The inquisition wasnt about religion. You dont think they were really burning witches do you ? They were burning people those in power didnt like.

Quote:
Where is the humanity?
Down the corridor, third door on the left.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:51 am
@cicerone imposter,
There's no logic to that tripe and it is no answer to my post. The past is dead and gone. I can't answer for that. It is the future we should be concentrating on.

It is difficult enough to maintain a semblance of morality even with 90+% of Americans believing in some form of revealed guidance. Imagine the consequences when there is none. And that's the objective whether you know it or not.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:54 am
@spendius,
The future depends on what is done today.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:41 am
@cicerone imposter,
Look ci--you have instructed that those who don't answer questions directly asked of them should depart the thread.

I have asked you two questions more than once and you have answered neither. One pertaining to the control of the masses which you brought up and the other about the effect of the election result on the teaching of evolution.

Instead you have produced a series of stupidities of which that last one is the stupidest.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 12:00 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
The challenge is exclusively related to the undermining of Christianity,
Youve got that 180 off there spendi. Why is the Christain Right Wing so busy trying to get Creationism and ID added to the science curricula as if they were even valid theories? This issue has been tried in court so many times (In logical sequences by both right wing and left wing courts)

The rest of your contribution seems to be purposely vague and obscurely written. SO Ill not step in the puddle with you.


cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 12:15 pm
@spendius,
Can you give us examples? Not only looking at current, but past history also.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 02:34 pm
LOUISIANA BREAKING NEWS
Quote:
Panel endorse textbook that describes evolution
(by Will Sentell | Baton Rouge Advocate | November 12, 2010)

A state advisory panel voted 8-4 Friday afternoon to endorse a series of high school science textbooks that have come under fire for how they describe evolution.

The vote followed more than three hours of discussion.

Two of the “no” votes were cast by Senate Education Committee Chairman Ben Nevers, D-Bogalusa and House Education Committee Vice-Chairman Frank Hoffmann, R-West Monroe.

The decision likely paves the way for the state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education to approve the textbooks when it meets in early December.

The textbooks under fire were approved earlier this year by a review committee that spent months studying them.

But final action on the biology I and biology II, and environmental science textbooks was delayed by BESE amid criticism that they put too much credence in Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution.

Backers of the books said today that Darwin’s ideas are widely accepted in the scientific community and that continuing debate in Louisiana is an embarrassment.

“We have been here before,” said Tammy Wood, a veteran educator in East Baton Rouge Parish.

“I don’t know why we are here again,” Wood said of evolution arguments.

But Lennie Ditoro of Mandeville, who has worked with the Louisiana Family Forum in the past, said the science textbooks are flawed.

“The books are really weak on the side of examining scientific evidence,” Ditoro told the Textbook/Media/Library Advisory Council. “Let’s not teach the kids that there is no controversy in the scientific community,” she added.

The Louisiana Family Forum says it is a group that promotes traditional values.

Officials of the organization have said they are concerned about this year’s science textbooks.

Darwin’s theory is that life forms have changed over time by mutations, with the pressure of natural selection determining which species survive.
 

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