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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
electronicmail
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 06:52 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

These anti-IDers do squabble amongst themselves a lot. First there's Ionus and now em. Neither batting for religion in schools.
.. I feel sure he didn't say such a thing about Texas public schools without having some first hand evidence.

I don't oppose religion in schools I oppose forcing taxpayers to pay for it.

The students have enough problems learning the 3Rs without messing with cosmogony or global warming denial or Heather's 2 mommies. Does anyone doubt this, except for the TX school board?
electronicmail
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 07:04 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Nobody with even a passing familiarity with what you post would concede a point to you about what anyone, sane or otherwise, would construe from what other people write.

I only spoke for the sane ones. Hold those "otherwise" Laughing
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 07:22 am
A couple of quotes from Boswell's Life of Samuel Johnson--

Quote:
We talked of the education of children; and I asked him what he thought was best to teach them first. Johnson: " Sir, it is no matter what you teach them first, any more than what leg you shall put into your breeches first. Sir, you may stand disputing which is best to put in first, but in the mean time, your breach is bare. Sir, while you are considering which of two things you should teach your child first, another boy has learnt them both.


Quote:
Talking of education, " People have now-a-days (said he) got a strange opinion that everything should be taught by lectures. Now, I cannot see that lectures can do so much good as reading the books from which the lectures are taken. I know nothing that can be best taught by lectures, except where experiments are to be shewn. You may teach chemistry by lectures,---You might teach making shoes by lectures!"


Johnson was drinking nothing but water at the time, or lemonade.

But I must admit that the teacher's union membership would prefer lectures to pointing children to the books from which they copied out their lecture notes. There are many teachers who recycle their own lesson notes made in lectures which were also copied out of books.

As evolution in practice cannot be shown it is an ideal subject for lectures and thus very popular with the lecturing mentality and suits teacher's union members' own purposes. It has the kids in saps mode. And anybody who doesn't know the techniques for making the saps look like geniuses knows very little about the organised education business.

I daresay that em's athletic scholarships have more real education in them than many a rote-learned academic one which is gained simply by regurgitating recycled old fashioned material from one generation of lecturers to another.
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 08:33 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

I daresay that em's athletic scholarships have more real education in them than many a rote-learned academic one which is gained simply by regurgitating recycled old fashioned material ..
I daresay you didn't read the link. Comment # 40.
Quote:
.. go to the Texas Education Agency Web site and take a look at the "Academically Unacceptable" schools. About half of them have the percentage of white students in single digits. Right here in Austin, Eastside Memorial Green Tech is 80% Hispanic and 17% black. Is the top 10% of Memorial Green a great source of coveted non-Asian minorities for UT? You bet! Are they as academically qualified as, say, the top 40% of Westlake High (rated "exemplary," 82% white and 11% Asian)? I doubt it.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 08:45 am
@spendius,
Another of you anti-IDer's silly, juvenile, anti-intellectual ways of thinking is to imagine that an institution as venerable as Christianity is undermined because a few of its supposed adherents do or say silly things.

It is obvious that in an institution as large as the Christian tradition there will be individual instances of the rules being ill-observed or set aside. That says nothing about the system. It is the Christian tradition that I am defending and not the behaviour of every single person who professes to be a Christian and falls short of the standards required. That you all think that some isolated divergence from the proper system can be taken as undermining the validity of the system itself is proof of an emotional disturbance. That you search out these deviant instances, or, more likely, have them searched out for you by aspects of the profit motive playing your emotional organ stops, and dwell upon them lovingly, is proof of your anti-intellectual, unscientific stupidity and, what is far worse, your salivating retailing of them to all and sundry is strong evidence that you think everyone is as stupid as you yourselves.

That you have to search into every corner of the land to find the examples you use, and that there are so few for you to hitch your reputation to and hang your emotions on, is actually statistical proof of the strength of Christianity.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 08:53 am
@electronicmail,
em--I have no intention of drawing any conclusions from reports of events in certain Texas schools with which I have no familiarity with all the circumstances surrounding them which are many and various.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I expressed an interest in you saying there is a racial component to this topic and asked for you to explain it.

electronicmail
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 08:55 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

That you all think that some isolated divergence from the proper system can be taken as undermining the validity of the system itself is proof of an emotional disturbance.

Enough. Farmerman was right about you. Drunk or on acid or severely disturbed or all 3. I got to focus on Tea Party business. Later.
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 09:00 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

em--I have no intention of drawing any conclusions from reports of events in certain Texas schools with which I have no familiarity .... I expressed an interest in you saying there is a racial component to this topic and asked for you to explain it.



Explain it more? Just read the posts and the links. Religion isn't the cause of the failing schools. The student composition is. Anybody points that out is accused of racism and gets an earful of a play you maybe heard about
Quote:
For I'll refer me to all things of sense,
If she in chains of magic were not bound,
Whether a maid so tender, fair and happy,
So opposite to marriage that she shunned
The wealthy curled darlings of our nation,
Would ever have, to incur a general mock,
Run from her guardage to the sooty bosom
Of such a thing as thou, to fear, not to delight
.

G'bye.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 09:02 am
@electronicmail,
Well that's cleared the air. Join the club.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 09:11 am
@electronicmail,
Yes, the full speech is--

Quote:
O thou foul thief, where hast thou stow'd my
daughter?
Damn'd as thou art, thou hast enchanted her,
For I'll refer me to all things of sense,
If she in chains of magic were not bound,
Whether a maid so tender, fair, and happy,
So opposite to marriage that she shunn'd
The wealthy, curled darlings of our nation,
Would ever have, to incur a general mock,
Run from her guardage to the sooty bosom
Of such a thing as thou—to fear, not to delight.
Judge me the world, if 'tis not gross in sense
That thou hast practiced on her with foul charms;
Abused her delicate youth with drugs or minerals
That weaken motion:—I'll have't disputed on;
'Tis probable, and palpable to thinking.
I therefore apprehend and do attach thee
For an abuser of the world, a practicer
Of arts inhibited and out of warrant.—
Lay hold upon him. If he do resist,
Subdue him at his peril.


He does kill the lady.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 09:14 am
Quote:
A prodigal nation wallowing with the hogs
(Shreveport Times, Letters to the Editor, October 5, 2010)

Most of us are familiar with the biblical story of the prodigal son. A grown son, living comfortably with his father, begins to question the benefits of that life and asks for his inheritance. His father gives it to him. He promptly wastes it on riotous living. A famine comes and he winds up scrambling among the pigs for food.

The son is appropriately referred to as the prodigal son. The word "prodigal" is defined as "exceedingly or recklessly wasteful."

Let's consider for a moment whether this country, in one generation, has raised the bar on reckless spending. The prodigal son spent only what he had. Representatives that we elected and have re-elected repeatedly have spent not only all that we had, but all they could borrow. We have saddled untold future generations with a federal debt spiraling upward that our leading economists claim will collapse our economy.

Yet those who want to borrow and spend more still run for office, and we continue to elect them. Compared to us, the prodigal son was a tightwad.

The prodigal son's fall began when he abandoned the values of his father. He saw something attractive outside his father's house. He pursued debauchery and riotous living. He wound up wallowing with the hogs.

Similarly, we have abandoned the values of our fathers and our forefathers. Those values were rooted in their belief in God. Our Congress, on Sept. 12, 1782, passed a resolution praising the publication of the first American edition of the Bible in English. In that same resolution, Congress recommended "this edition of the bible to the inhabitants of the United States." Wow, have we come a long way!

Today, high school biology teachers tell our children they evolved by chance from an ape-like ancestor and all living things similarly evolved from a common ancestor that was birthed accidentally, somewhere, somehow, from inorganic matter. In reference material recommended by the Louisiana Education Department as an aid to biology teachers, our National Academy of Sciences tells our children that this atheistic explanation of man's origin should be treated as fact, not theory.

If atheistic evolution is fact, our churches should sell their property and shut up. If the God they preach didn't create all that is, he is not God.

If teaching that something other than God produced all living things is somehow beneficial to our children, bring biology teachers into our churches and give the adults the benefit of that instruction. Have the local board members who regularly sit in the pews explain to the congregation why teaching children a godless explanation for their existence is beneficial.

Rather than do any of these things, churches wallow with the atheist hogs.

We have abandoned "Father Knows Best," "Leave It To Beaver" and "I Love Lucy." Young and old alike are now entertained by and enthralled with reality shows starring young sluts who achieved instant celebrity status by releasing sex tapes on the Web. Public drunkenness, drug use, promiscuous sex and homosexuality now characterize our "American idols."

We wallow with the lascivious hogs.

The prodigal son bottomed out and came to his senses. He said, "I will arise and go to my father and will say unto him, father, I have sinned against heaven and before thee and am no more worthy to be called thy son, make me as one of thy hired servants." He remembered his father's values, his father's God and recognized his own sin. That story had a happy ending.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 09:24 am
@electronicmail,
May I respectfully refer you em to Chapter 3 of Shakespeare and the Goddess of Complete Being by Ted Hughes.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 09:33 am
@wandeljw,
Blimey wande!! I never expected anything like that appearing in one of your posts.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 10:18 am
@spendius,
I was trying to think of you, spendi. I found a letter to the editor that expresses exactly what you have been telling us!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 10:26 am
It appears that Spurious has a new playmate. Those two deserve one another.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 10:39 am
@Setanta,
Would it be nice if Setanta tried contributing to the thread something of interest. Or even something we haven't heard before.

He once gave me a scolding for referring to him as Set and here he is, as usual, not doing to others as he would be done to. Allowing him to get within a thousand miles of the educational process would be an unmitigated disaster.

I don't know much about his playmates except that one of them is a dog. No doubt they deserve each other too.

And it's the usual old thing. What "appears" to him becomes suddenly and magically transformed into actual fact in his strange mind simply by an incantation.
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 11:03 am
@Setanta,
I think Wandel is merely using the Burgess maneuver. I see that hes opened with a knight right after his pawn.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 11:21 am
@electronicmail,
Are you working in the trenches? Ive been working here in PA since evolution was not considered subversive by the Evangelicals. They merely have seen the opportunity to extend their controlling influence on everyones flocks. Remember, ed boards are merely the subject of well connected politicians and with ten TExas legislature and the Executive actually talking about **** like secession, Its a wonder that they have anytime at all for academics.

The TSEA and the AAUP has been fighting the rising tide of the EVangelical sea for many years now. NCSE carries sevral articles of what has transpired in the exec and legislture to "groom" ed board candidates and toadies.

Even though you seem to want to blame unions for this, I think your focus should be elsewhere.

As far as your racial statistics, we have seen that schools in the inner cities a=can be turned around in a single year , all it takes is the release of the defacto neglect and installing admins and teachers with the skills to get the job done. We have several magnet schools in Philly and several other big cities that are graduating a significant nmber of minority kids with 800 SATs and standard scores well above average.
There is no, as you seem to imply. "racial setpoint" .

It appears to me that the difference between the progressives and the Conservative/l;ibertarians is that when the Conservatives see a societal condition as it exists, they throw up their hands and exclaim"see we shall always have that with us".
Sorry that the progressives want to asee things change, maybe they dont get it right all the time, but thyre trying.
Isure dont buy accepting statistics as Dickens might call them, "Things that must be"
Setanta
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 12:02 pm
@farmerman,
I was talking about that clown electronic mail . . . he has quoted Spurious several times here recently, so i suspect they're having a "conversation." They should get a room so the rest of us don't have to watch. That's OK by me--if he keeps quoting Spurious, i'll stop reading his posts, too.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2010 12:51 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
I was talking about that clown electronic mail . . . he has quoted Spurious several times here recently, so i suspect they're having a "conversation." They should get a room so the rest of us don't have to watch. That's OK by me--if he keeps quoting Spurious, i'll stop reading his posts, too.


Listen to this shite. No relevance to the topic. And that "get a room" sneer. Oh dear!! Again. It's infantile. Be careful you don't agree with anybody or Setanta will suggest you "get a room". Not that em and I are in agreement. He accused me of being drunk, stoned, mentally disturbed or all three. Why Setanta "suspects" em and I are having a "conversation" I cannot imagine unless he needs to suspect that for reasons of his own. And em is a "clown" as well and an anti-IDer. He quoted me because he was responding to something I posted.

Who bloody cares that Setanta doesn't want to read my posts. I would sooner he didn't if they scare him that much.

And wande, the threadmaster, doesn't take the view Setanta takes despite some loose talk about a "Burgess manoeuvre". Whatever that is?

But notice, gentle reader, that Setanta isn't answering any points nor contributing anything relevant to the topic. He's a flat-out troll. Having a lip-pulling, petulant thrum of ridiculous indignation. He's as cool as a Mexican jumping bean.

There's 72,350 odd views to this thread so the "rest of us" are watching. What a trick that is. Roping the "rest of us" into agreement with his own petty foibles.

He's a complete asswipe.
 

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