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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 09:19 am
LOUISIANA UPDATE
Quote:
Politics put above sense
(Editorial, The Baton Rouge Advocate, August 9, 2010)

If there is one value in our community that ought to be near-universal, it is that we do everything possible for our children to have a better future than we did. The path toward that goal is education.

Responsible parents will make their children do their homework, provide them books and educational materials, even pay for prep guides for college entrance exams.

Why, then, would educators introduce into classrooms materials that might induce children to give wrong answers on tests and college entrance exams? We fear that’s what Livingston Parish schools are willing to do with a political initiative to question the theory of evolution.

Members of Livingston’s School Board expressed interest in including “creationism” in science classes in the public schools. The system’s curriculum director, Jan Benton, said that under a new state law “critical thinking and creationism” materials can be introduced into science classes.

“Critical thinking” is the code for questioning evolution because of a fundamentalist belief in the literal story of the Creation in Genesis. While most faiths would not say Genesis is incompatible with evolution, there are those who differ — and they are politically engaged and ready to impose their beliefs on others.

Professional educators who promote this idea are not lining themselves up as profiles in courage.

Livingston Parish, to its credit, has in the past avoided this ridiculous idea. While board President Keith Martin said he would be open to reconsidering the issue, he raised very practical concerns: You don’t want teachers teaching different things in different sections of biology, for example.

Officials say they are only studying the idea; at the earliest, it would be a full school year before evolution comes under fire in Livingston schools.

This is a bad idea, period.

Must science bend to the false god of politics? If it does in Livingston, then the School Board members will have taken a conscious decision to make it more difficult for their students in the world.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 10:09 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
If there is one value in our community that ought to be near-universal, it is that we do everything possible for our children to have a better future than we did.


One might wonder how that trite sentimentality, designed to get the reader onside with the writer, sits with the debts being piled up for "our children", which are so large that the imagination can hardly grasp the quantity, and, as many scientists say, with heating up the earth to a degree which will lead to unimaginable dislocations of hundreds or millions of desperate people. One might also wonder how it sits with the tenor of the editorial which a large number of people justifiably believe will result in scientific totalitarianism. (see farmerman's last post).

Quote:
Must science bend to the false god of politics? If it does in Livingston, then the School Board members will have taken a conscious decision to make it more difficult for their students in the world.


A gross non sequitur as well as proof that the article does indeed envisage the subjection of politics to the materialist determinants of scientific measurements. Democratic elections being labelled a "false god". What an admission.

It is a non sequitur because the conclusion (life will be more difficult for the kids) does not follow from the premise (that science bends the knee to politics). It is also an assertion and the opposite has just as much right to be asserted by others.

And whatever the School Board decides has just as much right to claim that it is the interest of the children as the writer has to claim it isn't. Moreso, in view of the fact that the School Board has been elected or appointed by elected persons and that the Manship Family, which owns the Advocate, supposedly independent, has not.

Thanks for showing us anti-ID with its trousers down wande and entirely consistent with the pose fm was in just above.

Do you agree with the editorial wande?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2010 05:21 pm
Quote:
Richard Dawkins causes outcry after likening the burka to a bin liner.
Richard Dawkins, the outspoken atheist, has courted fresh controversy by likening the burka to a bin liner.

By Heidi Blake
Published: 9:36AM BST 10 Aug 2010
Richard Dawkins sparks outcry after likening the burka to a bin liner. REUTERS

The 69-year-old author and Oxford academic said he is filled with “visceral revulsion” when he sees women wearing the traditional Islamic covering.


Isn't he original eh?

He's obviously never been inside the tent. He can only see things from the outside. I find burkas mildly stimulating. And they do give every woman a chance. What a misogynist. He obviously has a menu in mind.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 09:12 am
Casey Luskin of the Discovery Institute has had an article published recently in Liberty University Law Review. It gives his interpretation of establishment clause law and how it affects teaching alternatives to evolution in public schools.

A pdf copy of the article can be found at this link:
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=6841
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 09:40 am
@wandeljw,
Could you give us the gist of it wande?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 09:54 am
@spendius,
Luskin is making a complicated argument, showing his interpretation of court decisions involving the teaching of evolution, and then explaining how advocates of evolution are actually violating the establishment clause.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 11:15 am
@wandeljw,
He obviously has his head up his arse pissed out of his dipstick mind. Anybody suggesting that proponents of evolution have been citing the establishment clause whilst at the same time violating it must be mentally masturbating. Surely?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 11:33 am
@wandeljw,
Interesting concepts. Not very well thought out though.
Luskin does a scholarly "nyah nyah" at biology by laiming the ID is NOT a religious view , and that "Pro-Darwinians" are practicing a religion.

Its interesting that he publishes in "LIBERTY UNIVERISTY LAW SCHOOL.

We all know how Liberty U teaches its science dont we.?
I wonder whether Liberty U's BIOLOGY program is even accredited.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 11:46 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Its interesting that he publishes in "LIBERTY UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL.


I did not want to call attention to that, but I am happy that you did. Smile
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 11:54 am
@farmerman,
It looks like his argument comes down to this false dilemma.

Quote:
While perhaps there is room for scientific disagreement over Raven and
Johnson’s claims, there should be little disagreement that these ID critics
are confronted with the following dilemma: either ID is a religious
viewpoint that is unconstitutionally opposed, inhibited, and disapproved
when this textbook is used in public schools, or ID is not a religious
viewpoint and is thereby fair game for all forms of government-sponsored
attacks, disparagement, hostility, as well as endorsement.


The basis of his argument is that any statement pointing out ID isn't science is an attack on religion. That means any government sponsored text book that allows such an attack is violating the Constitution.

The argument gets ludicrous at times..
Quote:
“there is no
scientific evidence to support the hypothesis that the earth is only a few
thousand years old, and none that indicates that every species of organism
was created separately.”72 The textbook states that these conclusions “can
be reached only on the basis of arbitrary faith” because they “are untestable,
and as such, they lie outside the realm of science.”73
Regardless of whether one agrees with the claims of the scientific
creationists (this author is not a young earth creationist and accepts the
conventional geological age of the earth), calling such views a “set of
religious beliefs” that comprise an “arbitrary faith” clearly represents an
attack upon a religious viewpoint

Calling something a religious set of beliefs that can't be proved is an attack?



The leaps from the cliffs of logic in that piece are quite amazing at times.

If science claims it can't test ID it shows science is lying because rejecting ID shows they were able to test it.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 12:07 pm
@farmerman,
What difference does that make to his argument. The argument is the argument whatever he publishes in. I only usually point out the Media Conglomerate responsible for wande's quotes after I have said something about the argument.

What is the argument? The "Life Force" argument of Bernard Shaw following Nietschze is a metaphysical one. The bus might look like it came from round the corner but it came from centuries of organisation. Millenia even. Darwinisn is just a description of the outward appearances.

What evidence does he offer that it is a religion?

"Accreditation" certifications can soon become totalitarian. Didn't Galileo do battle with the accredited viewpoint?

fm's confused.
parados
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 12:11 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
What evidence does he offer that it is a religion?

None really. Oh, he throws a lot of dust up in the air that will get those that agree with him nodding. But it isn't an argument that would hold up if questioned or judged by an impartial jury.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 12:16 pm
What is the reason why totalitarian, atheist, communist governments have put so much stress on persecuting religion? Is it not because they see in religion a threat to the total takeover of society. Why else that effort?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 12:23 pm
@parados,
Quote:
None really. Oh, he throws a lot of dust up in the air that will get those that agree with him nodding. But it isn't an argument that would hold up if questioned or judged by an impartial jury.


That begs a number of questions. No doubt it will get those who agree with you nodding too.

What was the argument? I've already speculated that it might be mental masturbation by a pissed up dipstick with his head up his arse that will get others of the same stripe nodding in agreement. But without the argument it remains speculation.

I asked a question. That wasn't an answer which makes it a species of Ignore in poor disguise.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 12:24 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
a “set of
religious beliefs” that comprise an “arbitrary faith”

So, spendi.. how does the above "persecute" any religion if this is said about them.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 12:26 pm
@parados,
That's not an answer either. It's woffle.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 02:16 pm
@spendius,
spendi, You're the one who's waffling.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 02:35 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
What was the argument?

Did you fall down on the way back from the pub?

I answered that question already, including quotes from the piece.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 02:40 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
a “set of
religious beliefs” that comprise an “arbitrary faith”


This was the argument made of how religion is attacked.

I asked you where the attack is? If you don't see it, then you are merely nodding along with me, I guess. Or are you just trying to keep awake after 2 hours in the pub. It's so hard to tell with you sometimes Spendi.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 03:27 pm
@parados,
You might have started with the whole section. It was--

Quote:
The textbook states that these conclusions “can
be reached only on the basis of arbitrary faith” because they “are untestable,
and as such, they lie outside the realm of science.”
Regardless of whether one agrees with the claims of the scientific
creationists (this author is not a young earth creationist and accepts the
conventional geological age of the earth), calling such views a “set of
religious beliefs” that comprise an “arbitrary faith” clearly represents an
attack upon a religious viewpoint.


It is an attack on a certain form of religious viewpoint from a certain form of scientific viewpoint which I presume he means to be that scientific viewpoint which uses "set of religious beliefs" and "arbitary faith" pejoratively" and as being worthless from that scientific view. I'll even accept the "clearly" as a result of this thread.

I think hiding behind saying that those expressions are not used pejoratively, as strictly speaking they are not, is naive. Disingenuous even.

Just as one might say "a woman of a certain age", which all women are, has a meaning which goes beyond that obvious fact. We would all know what was meant and the impression conveyed.

Do you disagree. Am I reading it incorrectly?

I have been working all day and reading King Lear all evening and I've had a soak, got my duds on and will be shortly in the pub to round off a rather pleasant day with a couple of pints of John Smith's Extra Smooth (silk in a glass) and a bit of banter with my neighbours.
 

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