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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 04:10 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
some that accommodate only a few people.
An interesting point...I too would like to see smaller churches...the first Christians met in peoples homes and shared meals....that beats the snot out of listening to a multi-millionaire using a PA system.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 04:21 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
You used the word incorrectly and you want us to believe it was a master plan ? Your ignorance tells us you are a fraud. Scientist my arse
ACtually , it was you who used it incorrectly by apparently denying the existence of the cloaca in human development. When you look **** up on google, you are demonstrating exactly what the access to computer databases has turned our world into. You accept the piece of "factoid" that Googl;e spits at you with no understanding of context (or in this case evolutionary embryology)
Its Ironic, how you holler about your own capabilities to discuss these things , yet you clearly demonstrate your lack of any (High school level)in depth knowledge which separates the childish amateurs google searchers from themore educated. (Dont worry, I shall not avoid pitching any new teaching moments at you, its how I evaluate how really smart you are)HINT: you have gotten a D for incomplete understanding.

Quote:
I do understand that youre showing us dino DNA again.
To which ANUS said
Quote:
Your life cant revolve around being wrong. You have to get over it, man up and go on with life.
I wasnt the one trying to perp a lie on others here, you were. I have nothing to "get over". I just sit and laugh every time you try to sound "scholarly"



Quote:
So this is a theory that produces no predictions. Only analyses the past. It cant be reproduced in the lab. It cant be demonstrated within a human life span. But to you it is worth taking us back to gladiatorial games and the good 'ol Roman times before Christianity. You are a dickhead.
I never said that there werent any predictions by some scientists who have carried out evolutionary change to accomplish a future being. There are thousands , and each one is based upon some personal biases. I dont believe em because, as a geologist, I believe that nature bats last (understand the euphemysm?) . There are plenty of predictions in where and how and when to keep everyone happy. Consider this like Archeology or historical reconstruction, these are diwcoveries of the past and as far as I know, there are few "predictions" of wht a new Egyptian pyramid of the future will look like. TRY TO THINK STUFF OUT BEFORE YOU TRY TO SOUND LIKE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE A POINT WORTH MAKING.

Quote:
What will the world be like if we take away religion from people?
. Im sure this wont happen, you wont have to worry. This entire thread isnt even remotely concerning that eventuality. On the converse, it actually IS about how the religious Fundamentals want to stick their stupid heads into good public school science. The Evangelicals have theior own schools within which they are free to teach whatever mumbo jumbo they wish (As long as they attain to state guidelines of competence in their students)

You are trying your damndest (you and Spendi) to create some kind of negative spin on our public sachool systems by entering an argument that WILL NOT EVER BE ENTERTAINED. SO Im a bit perplexed why you are wassting our time with your stupidity.


Quote:
Would that be the fractured school system that has so many heads it makes the hydra look headless ? The rest of the world doesnt have your problem.


We can teach religional survey classes in HS, just not as science. We also have an instrument called the Constitution which protects AGAINST what much of the rest of the world operates beneath. We dont want SHariah law or a n "Anglican Church" involved in public schools. We have perfectly good instruments of Christian and Muslim education in the presence of parochial schools. When the parochial school folks then want to infiltrate the public schools as some "entitlement" then we shall clash.

I always wondered why you cant understand such an easy concept.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 04:47 am
@farmerman,
ANUS, Its comical how the almost exact words in the Australian Constitution (as in our 1st Amendment) are used. Its recognized that Australia Glommed some of our wording and displayed em proudly (except when it comes to their interpretation, then you get typically British ) . MAx Wallace, a well known humanist said

Quote:
We thus have flawed democracies.
We did not separate church and state like the Americans and the French perhaps because it never occurred to us to do so. The question is, why it did it never occur to us?
In your 1981 Defense of Government SChools case, your country never came to a hard enough resolution. SO by being wishy washy in your courts decisions , you have what you have. We have a wall , you have a gateway.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 05:04 am
The most major challenge to the teaching of evolution is still the fact that evolution is a bunch of bullshit.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:PyC4LIV6tmK1FM:http://www.gamersupportgroup.com/BullShit.jpg
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 05:25 am
@gungasnake,
as spoken by one of our pre-eminent Creation "Scientists".

Still looking for Noahs Chris Craft gunga?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 06:16 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
you have gotten a D for incomplete understanding.


That's a compliment fm. And it demonstrates that you have an A in incomplete understanding which I hope you have a vellum certificate to prove it signed by prominent peer-reviewers.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 06:23 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
I will support whoever looks like losing.


Yeah--I'm like that. I've been sticking up for BP recently. I hate righteous twats of any stamp.

Check out Laurence Sterne Io. I think of fm as I do Tristram's father.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 06:25 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
I always wondered why you cant understand such an easy concept.


I can't understand it either but I have a damn sight better idea that anybody who thinks its an easy concept. They have no idea.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 06:40 am
fm--will you explain how CBS news reporters found a turtle's egg buried in the sand somewhere along the gulf coast when evolution has not produced a predator to exploit this easy food resource in all that unimaginable period of time it has had at its disposal?

It struck me as a bit of a lucky find just where the camera crew happened to be.
parados
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 07:17 am
@spendius,
Well now Spendius.....
If there was a predator that was able to find and eat all the turtle eggs, there wouldn't be any turtles, would there?

I think the answer is pretty evident from an evolutionary standpoint. Species that don't have predators that eat all their young survive. Species that do have predators that eat all their young die off.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 08:31 am
@parados,
I'm asking for an explanation of how CBS News found one when evolution had proved incapable of doing. The gulls know when they are due to hatch it seems.

Do you seriously think your post is telling any of us anything we don't know?

I'm exercised with CBS News and its scientifically educated audience.

0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 08:41 am
@parados,
I assume that was another spendi patty you were answering. Im amazed that, with all his bluster he still doesnt get the concept

Nature does one of three things

1The parent species produces huge amounts of eggs and larvae and invests nothing in their upbringing (The "mustard seed" parable)
2parents produce huge amounts of eggs and larvae and invest some trime in rearing a few chosen ones by ventral cartage
3The parent produces few (usually less than 10) offspring but invests lots of time in the rearing and fledging.

Both are adaptive selection.

Turtles are of the first type.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 08:52 am
@farmerman,
Knock off the elementary stuff fm. Of course I understand that and what parados said. Everybody understands it. It obvious. You're insulting our intelligence again.

It's you who doesn't understand my question or is choosing not to do in your pathetic bid to censor it. You searcher for the truth.

What method did CBS use to locate the turtle egg they showed being dug up. It's a simple question. What is the surface area of the sand directly above a buried turtle egg as a proportion of the area of sand where it might be?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 09:00 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Nature does one of three things

1The parent species produces huge amounts of eggs and larvae and invests nothing in their upbringing (The "mustard seed" parable)
2parents produce huge amounts of eggs and larvae and invest some trime in rearing a few chosen ones by ventral cartage
3The parent produces few (usually less than 10) offspring but invests lots of time in the rearing and fledging.


Nature does splitting and pollination. It does the cuckoo.

One presumes abortion is abhorrent to nature.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 11:16 am
@spendius,
Abortion is not abhorrent to nature; it's the essence of nature; all life forms practice it.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 01:43 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Obviously, I meant abortion as we know it and not spontaneous biological rejection of fertilised eggs which is an unconscious process and therefore not "practiced". Nowhere in nature is abortion practiced to avoid stretch marks or career dislocations or the responsibilities of parenthood.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 05:07 pm
LOUISIANA UPDATE
Quote:
Attack on science
(By Barbara Forrest, Hammond Daily Star, July 26, 2010)

Darrell White’s July 21 letter urging people to review science textbooks proposed for state adoption is the beginning of the Louisiana Family Forum’s attack on the public school science textbook selection process.

White, an LFF “consultant,” works fulltime promoting the goal of injecting the LFF’s religious views into public schools. The LFF engineered passage of the creationist Louisiana Science Education Act in 2008. In 2009, at the LFF’s request, the Board of Elementary and Secondary Education gutted the policy that implements the LSEA, stripping out protections against the teaching of creationism.

Now, the LFF wants to control the content of the textbooks.

White’s letter makes the fact that BESE and the Legislature have allowed the LFF so much control over public policy absolutely mindboggling. It is a mishmash of misinformation and right-wing propaganda. The only way to respond is to address White’s points one at a time. So here goes:

(1) White claims that “Congress has declared that ‘... a quality science education should prepare students to distinguish the data and testable theories of science from religious or philosophical claims that are made in the name of science. Where topics are taught that may generate controversy (such as biological evolution), the curriculum should help students to understand the full range of scientific views that exist, why such topics may generate controversy, and how scientific discoveries can profoundly affect society.’”

But Congress declared no such thing. White is quoting a “sense of the Senate” resolution that former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum stuck into the No Child Left Behind Act in 2001. Santorum acted on behalf of the Discovery Institute, the creationist think tank that in 2008 promoted and helped write the LSEA. Science and education organizations successfully lobbied to get Santorum’s resolution removed from the NCLB legislation. Discovery Institute supporters on the congressional conference committee subsequently stuck it in the NCLB legislative history, where it has NO force of law. I discuss this thoroughly in chapter 8 of my book, "Creationism’s Trojan Horse."

(2) White cites “national polling data confirming that most Americans would prefer that the weaknesses of evolutionism be presented alongside its so-called ‘strengths’ in the biology textbook.” First, there is not a shred of evidence that weakens “evolutionism.” None. Zero.

All available evidence confirms evolutionary theory as a robust explanation of the development of life.

Second, the polls to which White refers are bogus surveys that the Discovery Institute literally bought from Zogby International. I analyzed these polls carefully in my book. The questions were loaded in order to get the results for which Discovery Institute paid Zogby.

(3) White directs readers to www.textaddons.com to see problems supposedly found in biology textbooks in 2002. White and the LFF tried to persuade BESE to insert evolution disclaimers into state textbooks, but BESE voted 7-3 against this. (What on earth has happened to BESE since then?)

Textaddons.com is the website of Charles Voss, who has written creationist addendums to be used with state-approved biology textbooks. These are the “supplementary materials” that the LSEA was designed to permit teachers to use. Voss is not qualified to critique textbooks. In 1994, he and his creationist friends tried to persuade the Livingston Parish School Board to adopt an incompetently written curriculum guide that included “intelligent design.” I personally fought against that effort. A public school chemistry teacher on the Science Curriculum Committee stumped Voss with a simple question, “How does one test (scientifically) for intelligent design?” Voss replied, “I will have to get back to you on that.” We never heard from him again.

(4) White cites “historian Cleon Skouson,” actually W. Cleon Skousen, concerning the “great secret weapon of Communism,” namely, teaching students about evolution. Skousen, now deceased, was a lawyer by training, not a historian. Glenn Beck promotes his books, which explains why White cited him. Alexander Zaitchik documents in *Salon* (September 2009) that Skousen was a nutball. Even his fellow conservatives wanted nothing to do with him because he had “gone off the deep end.” Skousen’s own Mormon church distanced itself from him. He was fired from his job as Salt Lake City police chief by the ultraconservative mayor, who stated, “The man is a master of half-truths . . . a liar.”

Skousen wrote a 1982 history textbook, "The Making of America,"calling African-American children “pickaninnies” and claiming that American slaveowners were the “worst victims” of slavery. Enough said about White’s authoritative source.

The LSEA was only the beginning. The LFF’s attack on science textbooks is next. And now the Livingston Parish School Board has announced its intention to consider teaching creationism. This is what the Legislature, BESE, and Bobby Jindal have enabled the LFF to pull off. Throughout it all, the citizens of Louisiana have remained almost completely silent. With a few commendable exceptions, the scientific community has done the same. Will they finally do something this time to stop the assault on science and public education?

To quote Darrell White’s letter, “time will tell.”
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 06:07 pm
@wandeljw,
Being redundant, most of the people protesting evolution haven't the faintest notion what they are protesting.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2010 03:50 am
Hey--I've copped fm telling a small number of A2Kers on an obscure thread that he has me on Ignore as if it's a difficult feat and a sign of his superior scientific sensibility when actually it's incontrovertible evidence that he's a big girl's blouse.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2010 04:14 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Being redundant, most of the people protesting evolution haven't the faintest notion what they are protesting.


Try reading the Introduction to Ted Hughes's Shakespeare and the Goddess of Complete Being ed. See if you can find out what it is they are protesting.

You statement is a straw man but without any straw. You have assumed they don't know what they are protesting without offering any indications of what they don't know.

What they are protesting is the inhuman, alienating and humiliating notion that human society can exist on the basis of scientific knowledge alone and that knowledge derived from the animal world where males have to wait for females to come in season to get laid and even then have to fight each other.

Ms Forrest is selling books.

 

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