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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 10:20 am
True to my own direction, I offred up a comment to the KC church. I was shunted to a section that stated that my comments are awaiting moderation and edit.

Nothing like being honest I say. Like all frauds, cReationism and ID are merely in search of CONTROL, they conveniently use an argument of Biblical Inerrancy to fool the pious masses.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 10:28 am
@edgarblythe,
Even a superficial knowledge of Darwin and a casual familiarity with the workings of evolution is enough to wonder how schools ever came into being let alone lingerie shops.

Could you evolutionists please justify the existence of schools from your scientific point of view which you are asking everyone to adopt.

What have schools to do with bio-physical energetic systems? They can easily be shown to be institutions designed specifically to countermand biological imperatives. The simple fact that there are many different school systems all "educating" the young in different ways, often radically different, is sufficient evidence that they are artificial and have no basis in biology or evolutionary principles which are constant throughout the human race.

If you duck the question everybody is going to know you have and know the reason. What we want from you is the actual pursuit of truth rather than a claim to be doing which any fool can manage once he shuts himself off from other contributions he doesn't care to see.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 10:38 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Nothing like being honest I say. Like all frauds, cReationism and ID are merely in search of CONTROL, they conveniently use an argument of Biblical Inerrancy to fool the pious masses.


Is that an argument for having no control or for substituting the generally accepted one with one effemm approves of. If it is the latter could we have some sight of what it will consist of?

The assumption that the "pious masses" are fooled is, besides being false, just another way of effemm claiming he is no fool and thus superior to these people he refers to in the abstract sphere of his own head.

One does have to wonder whether effemm ever thinks of anything other than as a means of praising himself.

If the question is ducked everybody will again know it has been and the reason.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 05:02 pm
Im sure you got the point there . The recognition for the practice of CONTROL is not mine alone, its been the continued opinion posed by "real science" for decades.

What other reason can CReationism use to base its continuity? There is no evidence for it , the facts are wrong, science and history have proved it wrong(dead wrong), yet blowhard adherants like shpendi continue spouting lame arguments "for".

Of course spendi, your only interest is self aggrandizement and so that you will be given all recognition as a contrarian (no matter that youve got your head up your ass)
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 06:21 pm
@farmerman,
The questions were-

Quote:
Is that an argument for having no control or for substituting the generally accepted one with one effemm approves of? If it is the latter could we have some sight of what it will consist of?


Don't allow yourself the complacent indulgence of thinking that A2kers did not notice that you've ducked them with that mush as I suggested you would.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 06:22 pm
Play games with someone else dipshit. If youve nothing substantive then why dont you just step out and get bombed again
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 06:23 pm
@spendius,
And you've ducked the question of what schools have to do with evolution theory and have no other function than to countermand it.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 06:25 pm
@farmerman,
I don't play games with the educational system.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 06:28 pm
whatever that means . Why not pass out for the night, when you come to, you can play more trivia (or whatever you say youre good at)
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 06:37 pm
@farmerman,
I expect most people would know what it means.

And what me passing out or not has to do with the questions is incomprehensible. You're flailing.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 08:03 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
True to my own direction, I offered up a comment to the KC church. I was shunted to a section that stated that my comments are awaiting moderation and edit.


That's great that you gave it a try, farmerman. Please let us know what feedback you get, if any.
Xenoche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2008 01:58 am
@spendius,
Ducking inconvenient questions is what ID proponents do best.

After your 500+ word rant you still failed to give any semblance of an answer to my question, even after I pointed out you 'missed it', or what you would call ducked. Funny.

Don't worry spendilicious were all hypocrites in one way or another.

When I was taught evolution in my class I didn't accept it at face value, I thought "how is this useful", the same feeling I got when I saw a church. They looked to me like a hideous waste of effort, effort that could be better placed elsewhere. Now that I've grown up (somewhat), I can see why any governing body would use religion (monotheism especially), it is the ultimate societal control mechanism.

What do schools have to do with evolution theory? Gee spend I'm not sure, but I struggle to see how it would countermand it. Unless they were creationist schools. Which is the 'final solution' isnt it?
Christian country, Christian schools, Christian people, Christian communism.

The monetary system is used as a tool to regulate individual freedoms (hence the size of your lower class), another 'pearl harbour' and poof, the birth of a modern crusade with lots of poor, unintelligent god fairing slaves to toss into the meat grinder, the mighty Military Industrial complex. Hitler did it all wrong, you guys are on the right track. Your elite make Himmler and Hitler look like Pinky and the Brain.

Why would God create us? To harvest our souls for the energy to create more, stuff? We're like acid in a battery? Some purpose.

We are stupider then we could ever conceptualize (especially spendi). Razz
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2008 04:28 am
@wandeljw,
Im still waiting for a reply. It seems that Im the one who will be editeed "for content and brevity" . I am anxious to see what my "brief" will look like.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2008 07:14 am
@farmerman,
It will be a polite version of a hand on the scruff of your neck and a hand on the back of your trousers and head first through the swing doors. A pretty bum's rush.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2008 07:32 am
@spendius,
I would expect nothing less from these Cretins
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Dec, 2008 07:57 am
@Xenoche,
Look Xenie--I'm used to this tactic. Making it look like I've done something I haven't by taking advantage of viewers not checking.

What question? I may have missed it but that, while a possibility, is unlikely. You may not have understood my answer.

What was the question? I don't duck questions. Post it again.

Quote:
Now that I've grown up (somewhat), I can see why any governing body would use religion (monotheism especially), it is the ultimate societal control mechanism.


Not quite. Terror is the ultimate control mechanism. Religion is an attempt, flawed as it is, to avoid terror.

Quote:
What do schools have to do with evolution theory? Gee spend I'm not sure, but I struggle to see how it would countermand it.


Schools are a key ingredient in the socialisation process. Socialisation is required because kids are animals. There is no debate in serious circles about whether the socialisation process in complex societies is designed to counter evolutionary imperatives. It is.

And so are all legally approved sources of knowledge such as TV, comics and newspapers and even books. The evolutionist, if he is to resist the charge of being half-baked, has no time for schools, the law, etiquette or any prohibitions on Media at any time of day. Once he has time for those the question is begged as to the form of socialisation he approves. His only other alternative is to have no socialisation and allow the young animal to become an adult animal. That seems inescapable to me and to pretend otherwise is a mealy-mouthed cop-out.

Quote:
Unless they were creationist schools. Which is the 'final solution' isnt it? Christian country, Christian schools, Christian people, Christian communism.


The issue is not as black and white as that. We fudge compromises. Creationist schools and evolutionist schools are both extreme positions. That isn't where the argument is and to indulge in such simplicities puts you out of the debate.

Quote:
Hitler did it all wrong, you guys are on the right track. Your elite make Himmler and Hitler look like Pinky and the Brain.


That's just silly in this day and age. The Pope shows not the slightest sign of being like those two. Hitler was a product of a mass feeling of desperation. Without that feeling in the masses Hitler was a nobody ranting in coffee-houses. Repeat that feeling in the masses and another Hitler will arise. You can prove anything you want by selecting your own evidence from history.

Take a good look at the adverts running along with the "financial crisis". Hardly desperation.

Quote:
Why would God create us?


That is a question nobody can answer. Nor ever will.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 09:42 am
Opinion Essay from a current member of the Texas Board of Education:
Quote:
It’s right to ask questions about evolution
(By Ken Mercer, San Antonio Express-News, December 14, 2008)

I want to present the other side of the State Board of Education’s debate on teaching scientific strengths and “weaknesses” of evolutionary theory in future textbooks.

The Texas Freedom Network (TFN), an ultra-liberal advocacy group, funded and published the research study quoted by the Express-News.

Using political “red herrings,” TFN testifiers incorrectly implied teaching scientific weaknesses is a new requirement. They argued that allowing discussion of weaknesses would lead to teaching religion and subsequent litigation.

The fact is Texas has allowed teaching scientific weaknesses in science textbooks for the last 20 years. In that period of time, not one lawsuit was filed; and for the record, the teaching of creationism and intelligent design is not found in any current textbook adopted by the State of Texas.

TFN’s real agenda may be illustrated in this consistent, three-fold testimony to the State Board of Education: (1) Evolution is a fact; (2) there are no weaknesses to that theory; and (3) students are “unqualified” to ask questions.

Is evolution a fact? Most people of faith agree with what is commonly referred to as “micro” evolution,” small changes that are clearly visible. We see this in new vaccines and new strains of flu. You can witness evidence of microevolution downtown in any city via the thousands of varieties of stray dogs and cats.

The controversial “macro” evolution was commonly understood as those major changes that could occur if one species jumped to another. For example, have you ever seen a dog-cat, or a cat-rat? The most famous example of macroevolution is the Darwinian “man from an ancestral primate.”

Realizing the weakness in macroevolution, Darwinists changed the meaning. Whatever their new definition, where is the evidence for one species changing to another?

Are there weaknesses to the theory of evolution? I asked the testifiers at the SBOE meeting about Dr. Ernst Haeckel’s embryo drawings, which appeared in science textbooks for almost 100 years. His drawings implied that a fish, salamander, turtle, pig, etc. " each had almost the identical embryology of a human.

When I redirected the question, the testifiers admitted that Darwinist Haeckel was a fraud and that his “research” should never have appeared in textbooks. But it did.

The famous “missing link,” the Piltdown man, survived scientific method and peer review for almost 40 years. Finally someone was allowed to ask a question and found a weakness. This missing link was really the jawbone of an orangutan fused to a human skull. British Broadcasting called this the greatest scientific fraud of the 20th century.

The third part of the liberal agenda is most troubling. How can anyone state that students are “unqualified” to ask questions?

I consistently argued for freedom of speech and academic freedom. The opposition publicly argued against these freedoms.

In the 19th century, William Wilberforce, the focus of the recent biographical movie “Amazing Grace,” argued against the intellectual elite of Great Britain. He is credited with ending the racist English nightmare known as the “Black Slave Trade.”

History is not kind to Darwinian evolutionists who push their theory as truth, no weaknesses and no questions allowed. In this 21st Century, scientific research that opposes academic freedom will never pass any “smell test.”

I stand for students who will always ask questions and search for truth.

An agenda that opposes both freedom of speech and academic freedom is unpatriotic, un-American, and unscientific.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 12:49 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
The freedom peddler makes out of matters of truth a bait to lure people into a trap. Truth to him is an "ideal" and not a daily way way of doing things. He believes that he defends the truth if he is righteous. The conservative, who, out of an instinctive knowledge of the great difficulties connected with the pursuit of truth, defends the status quo in social living, is by far more honest. He has, at least, a chance of remaining decent. The freedom peddlar must, if he wishes to get along, sign his soul over to the devil.

Truth should be used cautiously against the fear of truth which is justified by actual conditions. Truth cannot be used as a tool without the infliction of pain, often severe pain; but neither can it be used like a medical drug. It is an integral part of the way of life of the future and has to grow organically within the senses and primal movements in our children from the very beginning in infancy. And this requires social and legal protection which no freedom or truth peddlar is ready or able to give.


Wilhem Reich. Who's books were burned by order of US District Court judge Clifford. Jnr. And who died in prison.

Note the " great difficulties". They are what the Texas senator called "controversial issues." The great unmentionables by anti-ID truth and freedom pedlars.

Anybody ignoring these phrases is merely pushing his own boat out and evading real truth and is an opponent of freedom. Evidence for that exists in every anti-ID post.

"The truth is obscure, too profound and too pure, to live it you have to explode." Bob Dylan.

"There are no truths outside the Gates of Eden." Bob Dylan.

Quote:
People avoid the truth because the first bit of truth uttered and lived would draw more truth into action and so on indefinately, and this would rip most people right off the customary track of their lives. But people, basically, know what is true and what is not, even if they so often render help to the lie. They support the lie because the lie has become a crutch without which life would not be possible. Therefore, in common human intercourse, the truth, and not the lie, is suspected of being phoney.


Reich again.

Quote:
Let people live their own truths, not your truth.

And-freedom and truth peddlers are-

Quote:
....not to be blamed for having ideals but for having emptied all ideals from any content whatsoever. Reich again.

They just talk about freedom and truth as abstractions, mere words, as if that is sufficient to establish their credentials for controlling the classrooms.

Put them in a corner on meaning and you're on Ignore.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 12:59 pm
One thing that troubles me is, the creationists label evolution a liberal cause and most people let them get away with it. Truth is, many conservatives accept evolution. But, the fundamentalists want to drive a political wedge in there, along with the poofism.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 01:18 pm
@edgarblythe,
They only think themselves fundamentalists. If they declare themselves to be and Ed. believes them that must be because he wants to.

It doesn't get more conservative than evolution theory. If somebody says it's a liberal idea they must be either exceedingly thick or have assumed their audience is.

You can't be a conservative proper and deny Darwin. He sentenced hungry working men to disgusting and dangerous prisons and probably to the lash. It is right and proper for the strongest to do what it takes to remain so. Fitzroy would have explained that to him on their long lonely nights cooped up together in the officer's quarters which actually had beds.

"Now look Charles," Fitz might have said, "you've heard what happened in Paris haven't you? If that happened to us you would be on the block old boy, and your nearest and dearest. Sleep on that.

Did somebody say evolution was a liberal cause? Ye Gods.
 

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