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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Sentience
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2010 08:59 pm
The problem is that intelligent design has no place in a modern day scientific community, and that it's limited to Christianity. On that note, why don't we talk about the creation of earth in Hinduism, Ancient Greek Pantheons, Ancient Nordic Pantheons, etc. Science class should be the teachings of modern science, and religion class (which does exist) should be the teachings of religion.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 06:58 am
@Sentience,
Sentience wrote:
The problem is that intelligent design has no place in a modern day scientific community, and that it's limited to Christianity. On that note, why don't we talk about the creation of earth in Hinduism, Ancient Greek Pantheons, Ancient Nordic Pantheons, etc. Science class should be the teachings of modern science, and religion class (which does exist) should be the teachings of religion.

Amazing how simple it really should be, isn't it.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 07:17 am
@rosborne979,
ros has obviously learned nothing in all this time.

The discussion is not about science on which we are all more or less agreed.

Evolution is one specific area of science which does interfere with religious viewpoints and moral values. And not just Christian ones.

How much longer is ros going to insult our intelligences by trying to pretend that those who object to teaching evolution theory also object to teaching science.

And how much longer is he going to maintain that a matter which has been exercising the wits of the Western world for 150 years is "simple"?

It is simple to ros because he is the real life version of Simple Simon.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 11:24 am
Quote:
The Times They Are A-Changin'
(Michael Zimmerman, Ph.D., The Huffington Post, July 1, 2010)

A short while back, I wrote about very good news coming out of Texas on the evolution front. As you'll remember, Federal District Judge Sam Sparks demolished the Institute for Creation Research's request to offer a graduate degree in science education. Judge Sparks's most memorable line in a devastating rebuttal of creationism was: "[T]he Court will proceed to address each of ICRGS's causes of action in turn, to the extent that it is able to understand them. It appears that although the Court has twice required Plaintiff to re-plead and set forth a short and plain statement of the relief requested, Plaintiff is entirely unable to file a complaint which is not overly verbose, disjointed, incoherent, maundering and full of irrelevant information."

Given how unfriendly the Lone Star State has been to evolution, in particular, and education, in general, at least at the level of the Texas State Board of Education, this was very big news.

Amazingly, there is also some very good news, albeit on a far more local level, coming out of Oklahoma. Like Texas, historically, the Sooner State hasn't been particularly friendly towards evolution. Indeed, in 1923 Oklahoma was the first state in the nation to pass an anti-evolution bill - and the arguments back then for such terrible legislation weren't very different from what's being promoted now.

In his wonderful 1985 book, Trial and Error: The American Controversy Over Creation and Evolution, Edward J. Larson quotes the author of Oklahoma's 1923 law that banned the teaching of evolution in the state's public schools as saying, "I'm neither a lawyer or (sic) a preacher but a two-horsed layman and I'm against this theory called science!"

Since then, many of Oklahoma's legislators have gone on, year after year, introducing legislation to limit what students can learn about science. So, good news out of Oklahoma on the evolution front is not something to be taken lightly. And yet it has just occurred.

Here's the story.

This past semester, a student in an introductory biology class at Oklahoma City Community College (OCCC) complained in his blog that his biology instructor was promoting creationism rather than evolution. According to the student, the instructor argued for a "5000 year old earth" and the absence of evolution at any level. Supposedly the instructor noted that the college wanted him to teach that evolution was correct but, having closed the classroom door, he asserted the primacy of creationism.

When the story got picked up by the Bad Astronomy blog at Discover magazine, a faculty member wrote in to defend OCCC. "Our school is the fifth-largest college in the state and supplies qualified people to all of our 4-year Universities....We are in dire need in the US, especially in Oklahoma, of a high level of academic rigor in the sciences. Otherwise it seems we may plummet into a technological and political dark age. In defense of our college, Oklahoma City Community College is NOT a creationist stronghold, on the contrary. All of our full-time biology faculty understand the actual age of the Earth and that Creationism (AKA ID) is not science. My own area is paleontology, so this series of blog postings is especially embarrassing to me."

At the end of the semester, after grades were turned in, the student approached the administration to complain about the instruction he received.

I'm delighted to report that Max Simmons, the dean of the division of science and mathematics, undertook an investigation into the student's claims and he has assured me that the situation has been resolved in a manner that protects the integrity of science education. All sections of the course in question are supposed to follow a common syllabus and all are supposed to share common learning objectives. As with all modern biology courses, evolutionary theory is supposed to be central to this course.

Because neither the syllabus nor the learning objectives were followed as they should have been, the part-time instructor and OCCC agreed that he would not be returning to teach. Dean Simmons was pleased that the biologists had carefully delineated learning objectives for the course. The instructor wrote me that he didn't want to comment on the situation.

The bottom line is that an Oklahoma student raised a problem with the way young earth creationism found its way into his biology course, pushing aside evolutionary theory, and the situation was resolved in favor of mainstream science.

When, in such a short time span, creationism is beaten back in Oklahoma and Texas, one of the first things to come to mind is the well known song written by a Zimmerman far more famous than I am. Robert Zimmerman, probably better known to all of you as Bob Dylan, in 1963, wrote The Times They Are A-Changin'.

"Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one if you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'"


There is hope for science education when locales that have been bastions for creationism begin to recognize that creationism is not scientific and that evolution is not a threat to religious belief. The times they are a-changin'.

And that's something all of us should celebrate.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 11:56 am
Whew, this is gonna make shpendis head explode. Its using Dylan to criticize anti-science policies of an Okie Community College
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 12:36 pm
Before his widely publicized conversion, Dylan wrote the following:

Well, John the Baptist after torturing a thief
Looks up at his hero the Commander-in-Chief
Saying, “Tell me great hero, but please make it brief
Is there a hole for me to get sick in?”

The Commander-in-Chief answers him while chasing a fly
Saying, “Death to all those who would whimper and cry”
And dropping a barbell he points to the sky
Saying, “The sun’s not yellow it’s chicken”

0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 12:38 pm
The point about Dylan, to me: He is all over the place with his writing. Plus, he is no renowned expert in philosophy religion or science anyway.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 01:41 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Whew, this is gonna make shpendis head explode. Its using Dylan to criticize anti-science policies of an Okie Community College


It might be a good idea fm if you read the drivel again. Show me the anti-science policies of the Okie Community College.

I can't see how a one-off incident in which the guy has been fired has anything to do with a national debate. It's a fairly regular news item that somebody goes beserk with a gun but that doesn't seem to have any effect on gun owning legislation.

When you start making mountains out of molehills it sure makes you look desperate.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 02:11 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:

The fine-tuned Universe is the idea that the conditions that allow life in the Universe can only occur when certain universal fundamental physical constants lie within a very narrow range, so that if any of several fundamental constants were only slightly different the universe would be unlikely to be conducive to the establishment and development of matter, astronomical structures, elemental diversity, or life as it is presently understood.

The existence and extent of fine-tuning in the universe is a matter of dispute in the scientific community. Proponents of fine-tuning include physicist Paul Davies who has stated "There is now broad agreement among physicists and cosmologists that the universe is in several respects ‘fine-tuned' for life" Other physicists such as Victor Stenger dispute fine-tuning, saying that even though "life as we know it would not exist if any one of several of the constants of physics were just slightly different, [we] cannot prove that some other form of life is feasible with a different set of constants. Anyone who insists that our form of life is the only one conceivable is making a claim based on no evidence and no theory." Among scientists who find the evidence persuasive, a variety of scientific explanations have been proposed, e.g., the anthropic principle along with multiple universes. The idea has also attracted discussion among philosophers and theologians
Shows you how little physicists or mathemeticians understand about biology. Life, it seems, has been able to occur and prosper from ph 1 to 13 and inatmospeheres of CH3, NH3 and O2 ,and can be made of SiO2 or Carbon.

Life becomes "fine tuned" to its environments. Life, by adapting to fine environments , becomes a prisoner to them. (Remember that statement?)
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 02:12 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
The point about Dylan, to me: He is all over the place with his writing. Plus, he is no renowned expert in philosophy religion or science anyway.


You're clueless on Dylan Ed.

See the date on your post. 2010 AD. The Venerable Bede introduced the style of reckoning the years dating from the birth of Jesus. The idea went from Bede via a man named Boniface to the Franks and later reached the papal Curia. And it's on your post. A new beginning. Dylan is a Jesus follower and what Jesus said about the past got him crucified. Tombstone Blues made money.

fm will explain geological pseudomorphosis for you. When he has done you might get an idea what historical pseudomorphosis is. The date on your post is an example. If you are married that's another example. If you celebrate Christmas is another.

BTW--What are the Huffington Post Zimmerman's views on other matters?

Quote:
* In February 2009, The Huffington Post linked to an altered YouTube video clip of John Gibson, which voiced over Gibson's voice. The video was altered by John Sanders, the technology reporter at WBAL-TV, who was later fired.

* The Huffington Post has been criticized by several science bloggers, as well as online news sources, for including articles by supporters of complementary and alternative medicine and anti-vaccine activists.

* The Institute for Global Jewish Affairs has claimed that The Huffington Post promotes anti-semitism through its routine negative coverage of Israel, citing as examples its news stories, commentary, and the comments posters have made with regard to Jews.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 02:26 pm
Quote:
"If Evolution Is Outlawed Only Outlaws Will Evolve."
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 02:30 pm
@kuvasz,
kuvasz wrote:

Quote:
"If Evolution Is Outlawed Only Outlaws Will Evolve."

Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 02:33 pm
@farmerman,
I know they are continually surprised to find life in some harsh environments.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 03:28 pm
@kuvasz,
How can evolution be outlawed? The discussion is about teaching it in schools and what that involves. It involves the removal of many Christian biology teachers. And also staff room confrontations such as we get here. To avoid the latter it involves the removal of Christian teachers, school board members and administrators. Following the logic a takeover of education by aetheists.

It is also about how evolution is taught, by whom and what other agendas they have.

The statement is simply facile. Does it cover books, films, TV and the Internet.

rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 04:45 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Whew, this is gonna make shpendis head explode. Its using Dylan to criticize anti-science policies of an Okie Community College

That's from Dylan? I thought it was from the movie Watchmen. Wink
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 04:48 pm
@rosborne979,
In England we say--"You know what Thought did--followed a muck-cart and thought it was a wedding."
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 04:55 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Its using Dylan to criticize anti-science policies of an Okie Community College


It really is pitiful that the Oklahoma Community College came down, according to the report, for science. And the usage "Okie" rather than Oklahoma is a matter for others to meditate.

One cannot help wondering if fm has all his chairs at home and ros hasn't found out yet.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 05:10 pm
@spendius,
Can we have an answer to the question about the Huffington Post's general agenda seeing as how you anti-IDers have jumped into bed with it?

Just for once like--you know. I hope you're not deeply ashamed of it. It's your chosen flagship after all.

Which posters here are Huffington Post fans besides wande, fm and ros?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 05:25 pm
@spendius,
Gee! I thought you were all respectable and happily married men.

How could I be led astray like that? HuffPo fans. Sheesh.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2010 06:42 pm
@rosborne979,
I see four posts in a row. Apparently Himself is on another talker tonight. Too much Extra Smooth for the old man?

 

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