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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 10:01 am
@Setanta,
That was a member of the state board who said that. Religious leaders in Texas are warning board members not to impose such beliefs on public education.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 10:08 am
Yeah, Wandel, i got that part. But that clown is one of those who will be voting on the new proposals--the religious leaders to whom you refer will not.

Ironically, Baptists have often been at the forefront of separation of church and state efforts in our history. Thomas Jefferson coined his "wall of separation" phrase in a letter to the Danbury Baptists, who had written to him to complain of the established religion of Connecticut, which at the time was the church we now call the Congregationalists.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 11:24 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
" Theologians and ministers at a news conference here said they were wary of the State Board of Education injecting too much religion into the new social science curriculum standards it will vote on this week.


I cannot imagine a social science curriculum in which "religion" is not a major component.

Quote:
Clergy organized by the Texas Freedom Network, a watchdog group that advocates for church-state separation, said they were concerned that board members will seek to enshrine a view of the country's Founding Fathers that inflates Christian influences.


I thought that the view of the Founding Fathers was something akin to the Holy Grail.

Quote:
“What violates the Constitution is presenting material that either prefers Christianity over other faiths or depicts the Untied States as a Christian nation in some legal sense or constitutional sense,” warned Derek Davis, dean of humanities at the Baptist-based University of Mary Hardin-Baylor and director of its Center for Religious Liberty.


I can't see how that can be avoided except by selecting what to Ignore and what not to Ignore.

President Obama has just been on the news praying for the people in Haiti and asking God to bless them and to bless those engaged in the upcoming humanitarian mission which is itself a process unknown in evolution theory.

Quote:
The Rev. Marcus McFaul, senior pastor at Highland Park Baptist Church in Austin, said “the instruction of religious faith, discipleship and a life of service " one shaped by devotion and piety " is the responsibility of each faith community, whether church, synagogue or mosque. It is the responsibility of parents and parishes, not public schools.”


The Rev obviously thinks that parents are abstract objects useful for the sole purpose of enabling his own thought processes to come to the conclusion he is satisfied with. And that parishes are agglomerations of such objects.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 11:31 am
@Setanta,
My book on the Exploration of North America 1630--1776 by Messers Cumming, Hillier, Quinn and Williams hardly presents them in the best of noble and clean living illumination.

Perhaps it is biased.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 12:33 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
How can a biological materialist say that Christianity hasn't arisen biologically as an evolutionary adaptation?


Quote:
Who said that? I surely didnt.


I didn't say you had fm. I was asking you how you have managed to avoid saying it all these years when you really ought to have started there as a materialist. It's a rhetorical question of course. It only has one answer. The biological materialist position necessarily means, with no possible argument, that Christianity is a biologically driven evolutionary adaptation.

It matters not a bit that you have no interest in the matter. What matters is why you spout about subjects you have no interest in the bottom line position of. That's what I have always meant by being half-baked.

Accordingly, I invite anti-IDers to state publicly that Christianity is a biologically driven evolutionary adaptation showing signs of previously unheard of success. Once they have done that, which they need to do to be taken seriously, they might explain their opposition to Christianity. Subjective derivations of a philosophy are unsuitable for determining a national educational policy which cannot be allowed to become a punchbag between two opposing parties which alternate in government.

I don't know but I'm inclined to doubt that Mr Mencken thought about the matter biologically. Scientifically. I would guess he was rowing his boat ashore.

My small Bible has only 24 verses in Ch. 17.


spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 12:51 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
How can a biological materialist say that Christianity hasn't arisen biologically as an evolutionary adaptation?


He can't of course. He has no other explanation other than a biological one. He can argue that atheism is potentially the next adaptation but then he needs to make and justify the claim that it will be a success. Hence social consequences is the crucial matter as I have said from the beginning.

Perhaps fm will write to the NCSE to ask for their guidance on the matter.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 12:59 pm
@spendius,
spendi, One can't rate atheism as a success or failure. This only proves you don't understand what atheism is.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 02:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Make a fresh start ci. Comprehension for Tiny Tots is a suitable beginning.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 02:41 pm
@spendius,
We all understand the fact that it's too late for you!
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 04:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It's too late for you ci. unless you respond to the challenge of either stating that Christianity is a biologically powered evolutionary adaptation with a proven track record or offering some other cause.

A belief is a physical happening, as I explained years ago, to a materialist. A strict materialist is forced to say that it comes under the laws of physics. There is only an intelligent designer, who needn't have a high IQ, to come to your rescue.

What you type on this thread, according to your own position, are the manifestations of physico-chemical reactions within your body. They are conditioned by the environment in which you took root and grew. Your unfreedom is total.

Not the least advantage of ID is that it provides an escape from the severities of such scientific proof which was offered by La Mettrie, de Sade, D.M. Armstrong and many others. You having them on Ignore is hardly suitable for preaching about educational policy.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 04:31 pm
@spendius,
spendi, Your myopia has no limits. It's not christianity that's universal; it's a natural human trait carried down through generations by their parents. It doesn't matter which religion; it only matters that young children are brain-washed early in their lives to accept what their parents practice and teach them.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 05:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Dream on you silly wimpy half-baked atheistic moo cow. You're a disgrace to the atheist persuasion.

Your assertions mean nothing more than a leg kicking when your knee is tapped with a rubber hammer.

The teaching has nothing to do with it. It is the acceptance of the teaching.

You have been arguing with people you can brow beat for far too long.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 05:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You enjoy accusing people of being brain washed as a method of convincing yourself that you haven't been.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 06:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Ezekiel has 48 chapters spendish
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 06:26 pm
@farmerman,
I'll check it out fm. My big Bible is very heavy.

Anyway-- we are all waiting with bated breath for your non biological (scientific) explanation of Christianity. There's no chance of the others taking it on.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 06:39 pm
@spendius,
spendi wrote:
Quote:
The teaching has nothing to do with it. It is the acceptance of the teaching.


You are not capable of understanding how much influence parents have on their children. It's reinforced repeatedly in their environment, because most of their family and friends practice the same religion. Why do you think Italy and South Americans are predominantly Catholic, while Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan, Japan and Korea are Buddhist? Most of Europe is christian, while the Middle East is Islam.

Can you figure that out?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 06:13 am
TEXAS UPDATE
Quote:
The American History Wars
(by Brian Thevenot, Texas Tribune, January 14, 2010)

As the State Board of Education grinded through testimony on Wednesday over its controversial social studies standards, much of the debate teetered on two basic fulcrums: teaching vs. indoctrination and patriotism vs. realism.

Scores of speakers, many affiliated with political organizations, ran complex issues of race and religion largely through those two filters for hours. Both debates came to a fine point with the testimony of Janie Brittain, a Garland mom and education activist who argued for a firmly pro-America bent in history books and for the explicit exclusion of Dolores Huerta, the co-founder of the United Farm Workers, on the grounds that she is a democratic socialist.

“We need to be teaching, in our schools, our form of government versus socialism, because it’s the difference between tyranny and freedom,” Brittain said, calling America “the last, best hope on earth.”

Board member Mavis Knight, of Dallas, quizzed Brittain: “What is your definition of indoctrination?”

A philosophy of teaching a specific way of thinking, without giving alternative arguments, Brittain answered.

“So you’re saying we should indoctrinate students about the founders of our country” and exclude Huerta from the curriculum because of her leftist views?

Brittain shot back: “Are you saying our government and socialism are equivalent?”

“No … I’m saying you can look at the benefits and dangers” of both systems, Knight replied.

“If you want to say we’re indoctrinating, then yes, we want to indoctrinate students in the American form of government,” Brittain said.

Such exchanges underscored the inherently political nature of deciding which leaders of and events in American history should be taught in a state as diverse as Texas. The task will grow even more politicized today, as board members, after considering reams of input collected over a year’s time, take votes on amendments to the curriculum. The social studies standards " on which textbooks and tests for about 4.7 million students will be based " include geography, economics and psychology as well as history, which has been the focus of public controversy.

On Wednesday, many speakers urged the board to resist overhauling the current drafts and to avoid injecting naively patriotic or overtly Christian interpretations of national affairs that have been recommended by some board-appointed “expert reviewers.” Two of the six reviewers, who submitted input separately from the curriculum committees, were David Barton and Peter Marshall, both evangelists.

Patrick Burkhart, an associate professor of communication at Texas A&M, commented that Barton’s book The Myth of Separation, in which the author argues the founders never intended to separate church and state, “looms over the social studies standards.”

“I have a vested interest in not seeing the board put on ideological or religious blinders. I want my students to be as ready as they can to understand contradictory and nuanced views of how the world actually exists,” Burkhart said. “I would caution the board against putting too much stock in any single viewpoint, like that of David Barton.”

Don McLeroy, of Bryan, a conservative member in the board’s majority faction, sought to cut through Burkhart’s nuance with a bottom-line question: “Would you rate the United States as a net plus or a net minus in world affairs and history?”

“Net plus, for sure,” the professor answered, without hesitation.

For every speaker who argued against an uncritical view of American history, another argued the nation’s future depended on teaching students the values underpinning its democracy " and on celebrating accomplishments rather than dwelling on failures. The negative-versus-positive debate overshadowed the more delicate questions of whether students should be taught the theory of “American exceptionalism” " and, if so, in what context " and to explore America’s racial history and its Hispanic and African-American leaders.

George Skaggs, who cited no affiliation, criticized what he called an attempt to give students a “jaundiced” view of their own country. “American exceptionalism is not a statement of arrogance or superiority, but rather that American offers freedom and prosperity to all citizens … and its efforts to free oppressed people around the world.”

Yet, he said, in the U.S. history portion of the standards, “exceptionalism has been replaced with a very different word " imperialism. The intent here is to attach some kind of negative connotation to America’s actions on the world stage.”

Bill Ames, a conservative gadfly appointed by McLeroy to serve on a U.S. history curriculum committee, said in an interview that his fellow committee members, who outvoted him repeatedly, insisted on a leftist and negative view of history.

“They wanted to insert Bernie Madoff” into a section on American entrepreneurs, Ames said. “That’s an effort to denigrate capitalism.”

While Hispanic advocates packed the committee room, demanding inclusion of historical figures of their race, others decried multiculturalism as ultimately harmful to unifying the nation.

“Learning about different cultures in-depth should be secondary,” said Donna Starnes, a fan of the Tea Party movement from Dallas, who added historical figures shouldn’t be selected for reasons of race and gender. “We should inspire children with what is exceptional and unique about our government.”

Starnes came in for a grilling from Knight. “Give me an example of people listed (in the standards) based on their race or ethnicity and not their accomplishments, and give me the standard you are using for accomplishment?” she asked. Starnes declined to answer.

Julio Noboa, a professor from the University of Texas-El Paso and a member of the board-appointed committee to write the history standards, was the only speaker to directly criticize the theory of exceptionalism, at least as described by many speakers.

Noboa listened as earlier speakers argued America’s unique place in the world owes in part to the fact it has never taken land by force, and has used war only to liberate other countries from despots.

Noboa counter-argued: America has indeed taken land in imperialistic ventures: “Ask the Indians, ask the Mexicans, ask the Hawaiians.” And it has unseated democratically elected governments in Latin America, both in overt and covert actions, to profit American corporations. He listed off Guatamala in 1954, the Dominican Republic in 1963, and Chile in 1963.

His intent, he said in an interview after addressing the board, was not to trash America to Texas students.

“I love America no less than the American exceptionalists,” he said. “I love her despite her warts and scars. They love an imaginary, whitewashed America. So who’s the true patriot?”
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 06:52 am
Texas Governor Perry is turning down a chance to get billions in federal school money, because our schools do so well already. Don't need federal rules applied. Texans are 48th in per capita spent on each student.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 08:18 am
"Grinded?" I don't believe "grinded" is a real past participle in English. Who wrote that?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 08:26 am
Yeah, EB, but this scares a lot of people because of the way Texas purchases textbooks in bulk for the entire state, rather than district by district, the way it is in most of the rest of the nation. Textbook publishers tend to end up printing what Texas wants, which limits the choices of those individual school districts in the rest of the nation. A few years back, a review of history textbooks by university history professors found textbooks in Texas which said that the attack on Pearl Harbor took place in 1950, and that Harry Truman was President when World War Two began. Excuse me, you're confusing that with the Korean War.

This has serious ramifications for the rest of the nation, which is why it deservedly attracts so much attention.
 

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