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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 09:25 pm
@firstthought,
depends on whos spoken last. When several posters wish to have ID taught in public school SCIENCE, then its religion and Constitutional Law, and thats just not right.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 09:58 pm
@spendius,
ID is not an argument from science; it's 100% from religion. Science doesn't exist to prove there is or isn't a intelligent designer. It can only decipher what is observable and provable through repeated testing of one component of nature.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 05:41 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
When several posters wish to have ID taught in public school SCIENCE,


Who are you meaning fm? I'm not one.

edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 05:46 am
@spendius,
Apparently, you prefer to skip the science altogether.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 06:05 am
@edgarblythe,
I can't imagine where you got such a silly idea Ed. I'm the only one on here who has any interest in science. The rest of them are merely flogging their prejudices.

The teaching of evolution, assuming it is done properly, is a wedge to promote atheism in schools and in the community.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 06:16 am
UPDATE ON LAWSUIT AGAINST CALIFORNIA SCIENCE CENTER
Quote:
California Science Center is sued for canceling a film promoting intelligent design
(By Mike Boehm, Los Angeles Times, December 29, 2009)

L.A.'s California Science Center will start the new year defending itself in court for canceling a documentary film attacking Charles Darwin's theory of evolution.

A lawsuit alleges that the state-owned center improperly bowed to pressure from the Smithsonian Institution, as well as e-mailed complaints from USC professors and others. It contends that the center violated both the 1st Amendment and a contract to rent the museum's Imax Theater when it canceled the screening of "Darwin's Dilemma: The Mystery of the Cambrian Fossil Record."

The suit was filed in Los Angeles Superior Court by the American Freedom Alliance, an L.A.-based group described by senior fellow Avi Davis as a nonprofit, nonpartisan "think tank and activist network promoting Western values and ideals."

The AFA seeks punitive damages and compensation for financial losses, as well as a declaration from the court that the center violated the Constitution and cannot refuse the group the right to rent its facilities for future events.

The AFA had planned an Oct. 25 screening of two films at the Exposition Park museum -- one a short Imax movie called "We are Born of Stars," which favors Darwin's theory; the other, "Darwin's Dilemma: The Mystery of the Cambrian Fossil Record," a feature-length documentary that criticizes Darwin and promotes intelligent design.

Intelligent design is the theory that an intelligent being, rather than impersonal forces such as Darwinian natural selection, is responsible for shaping life on Earth. An overwhelming majority of scientists and science and natural history museums consider the theory of evolution to have been proved beyond a doubt by genetic and fossil evidence. Critics of intelligent design have dismissed it as a superficially scientific cloak for the straightforwardly religious belief known as Creationism that's anchored in a literal reading of the biblical Book of Genesis.

The AFA's Davis said his group has no position on Darwinism and intelligent design but is concerned that debate is being stifled by the scientific establishment.

During the fall, the AFA organized a series of public events, including the film screening, geared to the 2009 bicentennial of Charles Darwin's birth and the 150th anniversary of his landmark work, "On the Origin of Species."

On Oct. 5, the science center, one of 165 national affiliates of the Smithsonian that enjoy special access to loans from its massive collection, received an alert -- and a complaint -- from Harold Closter, director of the Smithsonian's affiliates program. Closter gave the science center the head's-up about a news release that had been issued not by the AFA but by the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based think tank that promotes intelligent design and whose researchers are featured in "Darwin's Dilemma." In an e-mail that's an exhibit in the lawsuit, he wrote that the news release wrongly implied that the California Science Center is "a West Coast branch of the Smithsonian, and that the film showing is a Smithsonian event." Closter asked science center officials to correct the error but did not mention canceling the screening.

The Smithsonian has a history with the Discovery Institute: In an embarrassing episode in 2005, it approved Discovery's rental of an auditorium at the Smithsonian's National Museum of Natural History for a screening of a different film promoting intelligent design. That led to an outcry from the scientific community. But, having signed a contract, the Smithsonian allowed the screening to go forward, trying to distance itself from the event by returning the $16,000 rental fee and emphasizing that the Smithsonian did not endorse the screening.

The California Science Center, in contrast, canceled the AFA's screening on Oct. 6, saying that the AFA had violated its rental agreement.

Science center President Jeffrey Rudolph said in a statement entered in the case file that the news release violated a standard contractual requirement: All promotional materials for outside users' events must be submitted to the museum before they can be made public.

The AFA's suit, filed Oct. 14, contends that the contract issue was a "false pretext" and that pressure from the Smithsonian and the academic community was the real reason for canceling the film. It alleges that Rudolph first met with museum board members, then "contrived a justification" -- the unauthorized news release -- for preventing the screening. The AFA says that it should not have been held responsible for a release that it didn't issue itself.

The AFA alleges that in failing to be honest and open about its reasons for negating the contract, the science center committed a contract fraud that should now expose it to punitive damages on top of the $75,000 or more that Davis says the AFA lost by hastily having to transfer the $20 per ticket screening to a smaller space at USC's Davidson Conference Center, where the pro-Darwin Imax film could not be shown properly.

Rudolph declined to comment last week, saying in a prepared statement that the screening "was canceled because of issues related to the contract."

The Smithsonian is not a defendant in the suit. The huge, Washington, D.C. research and museum institution is federally chartered and receives part of its funding from the federal government.

The suit contends, however, that the Smithsonian was part of "a broad network of Darwin advocates [that] . . . jointly conspired" with the California Science Center to stop its film screening. A spokeswoman said the Smithsonian had no comment.

The first ruling in the case came Oct. 14, when Superior Court Judge James C. Chalfant denied the AFA's initial request that he order the science center to permit the Oct. 25 screening. But the suit for damages is moving forward, with a pretrial hearing scheduled Jan. 26.

In a separate suit filed Dec. 1, the Discovery Institute alleges that the California Science Center improperly has held back documents and e-mails pertaining to the film's cancellation, which it had sought under the California Public Records Act.

"We want to find out what really happened," said John West, the senior fellow in charge of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture. Government agencies that allow the public to rent their facilities can't "pick and choose only the viewpoints they like," he added.

Among the 44 pages that the Discovery Institute did get from the science center are e-mails filed as exhibits with its suit: "I'm less troubled by the freedom of speech issues than why my tax dollars which support the California 'Science' Center are being spent on hosting religious propaganda," wrote Hilary Schor, a USC professor of English, comparative literature and gender studies.

But another correspondent, Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, which champions evolution in clashes over which theory should be taught in public schools, urged "NOT asking the museum to cancel the showing of the movie. Really -- the story that 'big science is trying to squelch controversy . . . ' is going to be a bigger story and draw more attention to the movie's showing than the showing itself."

"Darwin's Dilemma" was screened in September at the University of Oklahoma's Sam Noble Oklahoma Museum of Natural History -- sponsored not by the museum but by a student organization that rented its auditorium. West, the Discovery Institute official, noted approvingly that officials of the Oklahoma museum "came under a lot of pressure" from Darwinists opposed to the screening, "but their response was to do more free speech, and open the museum for a counter-lecture" opposing intelligent design.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 06:54 am
@spendius,
I won't call you a liar here, but if that satement is not 'flogging one's predjudices' I don't know what is.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 06:55 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
The AFA's Davis said his group has no position on Darwinism and intelligent design but is concerned that debate is being stifled by the scientific establishment.


It has been obvious for a long time that the proponents of teaching evolution are well into censorship and top down directives. They even feel free to talk about INCREASED PROFICIENCY without troubling themselves to say what it is, how it will be done or what it is for.

They are also into hiding behind walls and responding with insults and ignorings to any communications they can't answer or don't like. As the Kremlin used to do before it was discovered that such things are proficiency decreasers.


0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 07:04 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I won't call you a liar here, but if that satement is not 'flogging one's predjudices' I don't know what is.


I have no prejudices Ed. I'm a scientist. That's why I'm hard to take. Science is hard to take as the opera we were trying to discuss demonstrates. It is an extremely severe discipline and it ranges over the social field as well as the organic and inorganic ones. It does not restrict itself to the narrow lanes of fm's specialised expertise.

0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 08:38 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
A lawsuit alleges that the state-owned center improperly bowed to pressure from the Smithsonian Institution, as well as e-mailed complaints from USC professors and others.


aND WE ALL KNOW WHAT A HOT BED OF ATHEISTIC MALTHINKING
THE SMITHSONIAN IS.

Darwins Dilemma is so unabashedly anti science it is embarrasing. How anyone who claims to be "pro scientific thought" can accept the premise and the actual data in that movie is one who has let their myhtos bone take out their frontal lobe.

We may have another trial wherein the actual facts will rule and the movies will be viewed under a cold light of analysis and Constitutional rules.
Could be fun.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 09:00 am
@spendius,
Quote:
I can't imagine where you got such a silly idea Ed. I'm the only one on here who has any interest in science. The rest of them are merely flogging their prejudices.

The teaching of evolution, assuming it is done properly, is a wedge to promote atheism in schools and in the community.



If youre interested in science , why would that matter? Are you afraid that science will remove the curtain from your favorite myths about the Creation?

Did God create alkanes or alkenes first?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 10:38 am
@farmerman,
I've no idea fm. You ought to know by now that I don't bother with such matters. I bother about social consequences in the future.

My myths about the development of human life have nothing in common with your's. You seem to think that science grows on a tree in your yard and you are entitled to pick off the fruits.

Is it a rule of evolution theory that the mass of life forms is constant under a given set of geo-physical conditions?

0 Replies
 
firstthought
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 12:04 pm
@farmerman,
it was a coded message to IC to say I was back. Farmerman we have communicated in the dim and distant past how are you enjoying retirement. ?

We live in world of mythology to realism with everything between: there is a natural Law of Change which nobody seems to know about -simple- "everything has a beginning, a life and an ending. The ending starts a new beginning ". During the life cycle impingement comes from natural sources and from human behavior .


The monolithic god is perfect or so it is written in human literture, and god is in every bonofide religion, where as there is no such thing as a perfect human beings. God does not interfere in human behavior! We should be teaching our children responsibility and accountability to the level of what they wish to attain in our so-called civilized socity. Take the word "blame and toss" it in the recycling bin.

Unfortunately The Emotion of fear (which covers a whole spectrum of conditions) is used in the prymidal power structure of religion by certain individuals throughout history to satisfy their own idealogical viewpoints.

Well that my viewpoint and I address the origonal question et al.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 01:10 pm
@firstthought,
firstthought, The interesting message that most people of religion see are the messages that seems to resonate with their own personalities. In other words, they see "god's love," but seem to ignore the primary threat of "vengeance" on the other side of the coin. They can accept the world flood that have "supposedly" killed everybody except Noah's family members, but can't see how ridiculous the claim that the ark carried two of each living things.

Even the mega ships of today couldn't accommodate all the "living things" on earth excluding humans. One must wonder how they were able to feed and provide water for all those "living things for the duration?

If god helped feed all those "living things," he could have easily destroyed all living things except those living things he wanted to save; after all, he is (supposed to be) omnipotent.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 01:12 pm
@firstthought,
Am reading Wright's "Evolution of God", Its a soup to nuts fossil evidence trove of Humans need for spirituality and someone whose "in charge". It covers your last post almost as a "thesis [proposal"

Its by a scholar of comp religions at Princeton
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 02:52 pm
@farmerman,
Do you reject the evidence that the "need" exists in that reality you are always on about? You are going to have to do some big-time research to prove it doesn't. Even Stalin couldn't do it.

Look at the history of godless oaths for high office and compare and contrast, as my teachers bid me do sodium and lithium, once upon a time when **** was something you shovelled off the road and put on the roses rather than it flying at you from all directions with all points covered, with oaths to God inaugurations.

I take the evidence I see to confirm that the "need" exists. So then we work with it. And we have got so good at it that we can now afford to allow the heretics to shout their confusing range of alternatives across the rooftops. Their need to do that can be recognised as reality and worked with. Burning at the stake is too good for them. Let them smoulder with rage for ever and ever. They couldn't agree a programme let alone win an election.

By working with these "needs" I mean turning them to as many uses as possible ducking and weaving as best we can. One has either to assume that its just getting a good argument going or that we are flying by the backside. A good argument with its irresolvability, its newsprint coverage in between the ads, its leading personalities, its networkings, its chat show airings, its court cases and so on. Its passions. That's good for business and what's good for business is good for America and what's good for America is good for little old us. It says so in most of the papers.

I feel sure the scholar will be pleased to see his little baby book, on which care had been lavished, I presume, described as "a soup to nuts fossil evidence trove". It's a neat phrase to be sure whatever the trove consists of.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 03:03 pm
@spendius,
Most **** are used to fertilize human food plants. Understand?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 05:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Shh.
Spendi's a scientist. His philosopher's stone will astonish. Let's give him room to work.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 05:49 pm
@edgarblythe,
Must be one of those "mad" scientist.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 06:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah--you can see that the game is up for science by how sane and normal the current crop are. It's just a another career now and no longer a calling. There's prizes and titles and reserved car parks and washrooms these days.

Oh--and words--lots of words.
0 Replies
 
 

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