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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 04:17 pm
@spendius,
Other than bragging rights, what have you gained?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 05:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
we have validated his existence . SO, if we just let him bask , Im sure he will be the subject of many paeans sung about the campfires.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 06:43 pm
I achieved what I intended to achieve which was to force myself to put in a little effort to understand and appreciate your national game.

There are too many so called sports fans here who have crabbed your game without trying to do that and it's not the right way to go about things.

Maybe if you lot made a similar effort to understand the position I take on religion you might learn something too. Anybody can knock. The only knockers I like are those requiring a Double D-cup to reduce their bouncing.

But I'll tell you one thing. If there were as many ad breaks in our football as you had to put up with in the Chargers/Cowboys game there would be at least a change of government using violence if necessary. It's disgusting.

Like Dylan said--It sure was a good idea till greed got in the way.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 06:48 pm
No doubt you'll all be glad to know that it looks like I've been relegated to 2nd spot by McGentrix who I do believe is another conservative.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 10:32 pm
@spendius,
I don't take a personal stand against you, spendi. Football is football and evolution is dispassionate science.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Dec, 2009 11:17 pm
@spendius,
If you had put half the effort into evolutionary theory, you'd be so much more ahead in science over American football.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Dec, 2009 07:46 am
@spendius,
spendi, I see that youre just one in the pack this week. You must learn to understand the real evolutionary significance of our fooball. All the pro teams, like a pack of hyenas, always want to make the kill but not an expense which may render one of the pack injured. In the final run to the playoffs, the least injured teams prevail and the early season picks are no longer even in the running (With the noteable exception of the 12-0 guys).

In a pure "pick from a sock" gamery, its not a 50-50 chance because you have the previous weeks records and spin. All through the reg season, its rather easy to be at least 75%. Now, as we approach the fimal 3 games, its a chess board where any team must preserve itself fopr the playoffs but cannot waste any ground at the same time.

An important lesson that may not be apparent from your side of the waters. However it does bear some interesting parallels to genetic drift, wherein the pack, herd, megagaggle, is able to shed the slow and lame while still allowing itself forward motion in its seasonal peregrination.
I never realized that fooball could teach us a lesson. I must thank you for your very own self congratulatory style had caused me to watch a little closer these last 2 weeks, which, after all, is where fooball seasons really start.

cheers.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Dec, 2009 08:49 am
@farmerman,
And my thanks to you farmerman for that additional aid to my pickings. I had noticed a fair bit of weak tackling but I had put it down to other causes. I suppose that what you mean is that a 12-0 team playing next week against a team with something still to play for is likely to lose.

It happens here too when key players are rested on Saturdays when a vital Champion's League is coming 3 or 4 days later. And the ones who do play on the Saturday are not as energetic as usual. But it does happen here that both the Sat. game and the mid-week game are both vital. They are playing for large amounts of money.

I will now make a study of how qualification for the play-offs is organised. My ignorance on this matter is a possible explanation for my poor performance in week 14. I'll try to console myself with that.

But picking from a sock is 50-50 because otherwise it is not picking from a sock.

spendi Googles Superbowl qualification.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Dec, 2009 09:02 am
@spendius,
Quote:
I suppose that what you mean is that a 12-0 team playing next week against a team with something still to play for is likely to lose.

Not necessarily because 12-0 just may be that good way down the bench. However 12-0 is guaranteed playoffs so they may want something like a bye or home field advantage. So there are some extra perks.

From your results each week, the best to the least arent separated by much more than 2 or 3 games. Almost everyone gets at least 75% (even one who picked by observing the towns wioth the best restaurants). Your comparing this to coin tossing and its not. Of course when I say "picking from a sock" I am engaging in hyperbole. There are always the records and pre season spin to start off. When the season gets rolling, momentum is always there and when injuries pile up, "the fittest" may emerge from a midden.
Then we have the playoff stretch where player health maintenance, first week bye, and home field are of various levels of importance .
Add to that the several teams in each division who could get a"wild card" position, the playoff styretch is certainly a typical red queen option.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Dec, 2009 02:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
If you had put half the effort into evolutionary theory, you'd be so much more ahead in science over American football.


You wouldn't know what being ahead in science was if it grabbed you by the windpipe ci.

There is a certain science in a comparison of the products advertised during football games with those advertised in those Lady discussion programmes about how beastly men are. If you put some effort into studying that manifestation you might begin to learn some elementary aspects of evolution theory.

0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Dec, 2009 05:00 pm
@farmerman,
Not surprising how some Brits will confuse "elementary" with "rudimentary," whether it's the rules in professional football or evolution, especially when they exhibit little of knowledge of either.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Dec, 2009 06:04 pm
I don't know whether you Yanks can Google up BBC I-Player but if you can there's a strange programme on there called Games Brittania. I can't claim to understand it enough to risk doing a post about it but it does link games to religion and suggests to me that NFL is a board game with human counters with a fairly perfect balance between luck and strategy and which can employ divination techniques to decide where to buy property and where not to.

Maybe New Orleans is a buy.

There sure is a lot more to life than what's in boring science textbooks and to give 50 million kids nothing else seems to me a recipe for disaster. And once you get away from "nothing else" you have **** your hole full intellectually.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 08:20 pm
UPDATE ON TEACHER SUED FOR ANTI-CREATIONISM REMARKS
Quote:
Judge denies awarding $391,150 to teacher's defense team
(By SCOTT MARTINDALE, Orange County Register, December 14, 2009)

SANTA ANA " A federal judge today denied awarding $391,150 in attorneys' fees and court-related costs to the defense team for high school teacher James Corbett, sued by a student two years ago for his anti-Christian classroom rhetoric.

U.S. District Court Judge James Selna said in an eight-page ruling that although the Capistrano Unified School District was not liable for Corbett's actions, Capistrano was not eligible to recover any attorneys' fees because student Chad Farnan's lawsuit against the school district was not simply "a baseless, vexatious claim," as Corbett's attorneys had argued.

"C.F. (Chad Farnan) set out to prove a constitutional violation, and he did," Selna said in his ruling. "The vagaries of the law in this area, from which Corbett benefitted, do not undermine the substantive validity of C.F.'s establishment clause claim, nor do they render his position frivolous."

Today's ruling affirms a tentative decision by Selna more than a month ago against awarding attorneys' fees to Corbett's attorneys, and overturns an October decision by a federal court clerk to award $12,631 in court-related fees.

It also marks the end of the case at the trial court level, although both sides already have appealed Selna's ruling to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

"We agree with the judge's tentative (ruling) and are happy with this ruling, as we do not believe we should be paying costs for either the defendant, school district or the union interveners," said Farnan's attorney, Jennifer Monk. "In light of the fact that Dr. Corbett was found to have violated the constitution, the cost of attorneys' fees should not be awarded to the defense."

Corbett, an Advanced Placement European history teacher at Capistrano Valley High School in Mission Viejo, was found to have violated the First Amendment's establishment clause when he referred to Creationism as "religious, superstitious nonsense" during a fall 2007 classroom lecture.

While Selna sided with Farnan in the May 2009 ruling, he found Capistrano not liable at the same time and, four months later, found Corbett not financially liable for his actions under a qualified immunity defense. It was qualified immunity that barred Farnan from seeking attorneys' fees or court costs from Corbett, although Corbett's attorneys attempted to get costs from Farnan.

"In the end, we didn't get involved in this case to get attorneys' fees or court costs," said Michael Hersh, an attorney for the California Teachers Association union and a member of Corbett's defense team.

Corbett's defense team comprises attorneys for Capistrano Unified and the teachers union. Capistrano Unified had asked for $154,781.50 in attorneys' fees and $8,483 in court costs, and the union had asked for $223,737.50 in attorneys' fees and $4,148 in court costs " for a total of $391,150.

To determine whether attorneys' fees should be awarded, the judge applied a legal test that essentially evaluated whether Farnan's claim was "unreasonable, frivolous, meritless or vexatious."

"The court finds it somewhat disturbing that the school defendants label C.F.'s position frivolous given that it was only application of the doctrine of qualified immunity that spared Corbett from liability," Selna said in his ruling. "The premise of that defense " which the court accepted " was that there was no clearly established constitutional right on the facts of this case."

A hearing to discuss the awarding of costs had been scheduled for today, but was canceled at the last minute after both parties agreed to accept the judge's tentative ruling, which was released last week.

Today's decision combined two issues that previously had been separate.

The judge originally planned to discuss the awarding of attorneys' fees at a hearing last month, but canceled it at the last minute and rescheduled it for today.

The awarding of court costs originated with a federal court clerk, Milli Borgarding, the deputy in charge of the Santa Ana division of the U.S. District Court clerk's office, who awarded the court fees to Corbett's defense team as part of what is typically a routine procedural matter. But Farnan immediately appealed to the judge.

In the 9th Circuit, Corbett will seek to be exonerated; Farnan is seeking a stronger, broader judgment against Corbett.

"We feel strongly about the case and are looking forward to presenting our arguments to the 9th Circuit and getting a broader ruling than we were able to get in district court," Monk said.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 08:35 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

I don't know whether you Yanks can Google up BBC I-Player but if you can there's a strange programme on there called Games Brittania. I can't claim to understand it enough to risk doing a post about it but it does link games to religion and suggests to me that NFL is a board game with human counters with a fairly perfect balance between luck and strategy and which can employ divination techniques to decide where to buy property and where not to.

Maybe New Orleans is a buy.

There sure is a lot more to life than what's in boring science textbooks and to give 50 million kids nothing else seems to me a recipe for disaster. And once you get away from "nothing else" you have **** your hole full intellectually.


Ridiculous. It's as if you don't know science is only a part of the curriculum, not close to the whole of it. There are classes in literature, history, and the like.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 09:10 pm
@edgarblythe,
No, he doesn't know.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 09:11 pm
@Lightwizard,
I mean, what the hell, man.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Dec, 2009 09:16 pm
@edgarblythe,
PSXXX probably flunked sandbox.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Dec, 2009 07:42 am
@edgarblythe,
It looks like what ci. has got is catching. Not reading the thread and just blurting out silly remarks. The point about other classes besides science classes in the same school was pounded to death by me early on in the thread.

A2K is an educational medium to which grade kids are exposed so I assume the judge in the case above thinks that anti-IDers are violating the First's establishment clause when they say that Creationism is 'religious, superstitious nonsense' and are having recourse to the letter of the law rather than the spirit of it.

My point stands and was not in the least "ridiculous" despite infantile assertions to the contrary.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Dec, 2009 09:54 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Ridiculous. It's as if you don't know science is only a part of the curriculum, not close to the whole of it. There are classes in literature, history, and the like.


Yeah, but I was thinking the other day after I said on another thread that with all the new information we've gained there's really not room for it in terms of adding just a unit or two to the existing biology or earth science curriculum that it would be great to add an entirely new course - maybe calling it 'Origins- A Survey' or something like that, in which all of the differing and separate theories of origins were introduced and presented by people who could objectively communicate the information and spirit of each theory.

I really do think it has to be a separate course for two reasons:
1) Biology is already chock-full of factual information. Now that the genome has been mapped and DNA's been added in - the biology teachers I know who have to cram the factual known material into thirty-six weeks (minus four to six for review and exams) are pretty much throwing their hands up whenever some new discovery comes along that they have to shoehorn into an already overstuffed curriculum
and
2) Much of it is still theoretical premise and would have to be presented as such. And it gets a little confusing to kids when you try to mix too much of the theoretical with the factual and expect them to remember which is which.

You'd probably have to make it an elective, but I think it'd be a fascinating course. I would take it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Dec, 2009 11:49 am
@aidan,
aidan, Are you a member of DI? You are advocating for bringing creationism into science class even though there is no evidence of such a thing. The idea that the bible is any sort of resource for our universe is laughable at best, and ridiculous on the face of it. On the second day of creation, god created night and day? Do you understand simple physics?

In a dark room, shine a flashlight at a round object. Tell us what you find?
 

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